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Re: Seeking True Democracy
Posted by: PVR (IP Logged)
Date: September 18, 2007 05:50AM

Dear Fred,
I am giving my response below to the queries raised by you. My views do not go to the final picture straight away but instead takes into account the present situation, its possible evolution and how this can be modified by suitable action to favour True Democracy.

The enabling legislation is not going to happen so easily. While you are discussing a situation where the representatives have to take into account the views of the people LEGALLY, I am describing a situation where the representatives have to do the same OUT OF NECESSITY, if they wish to survive politically. In the description below it is not enough if the representative acts merely as a mechanical conduit to the views expressed by the people. The overall personality and integrity would also matter.

Take for example, views are expressed for and against a particular question pertaining level 2-30-12. The views expressed will be on the True Democracy platform. Since everyone is free to express his/her will, the voice of common people has much greater chance of being heard on the True Democracy platform. This will be especially so once it is increasingly known that such a platform is available to the ordinary citizen. In the absence of legislative support the representative at level 2-30-12 can ignore the views expressed on the platform. However anyone with true democratic spirit can take advantage of the situation and announce his support to the views expressed on the platform and solemnly resolve that he would pursue the views if he gets the opportunity to serve. This will put pressure on the current representative who chooses to ignore them.

Over a period of time any person (or political party) who is truly interested in serving the public will find that the True Democracy web platform would be the ideal place to connect with the people of that constituency regarding what they actually expect from their representatives. The fact that the platform envisages the step 2 action, where those registered on the platform would campaign for the candidate who in their opinion would be best suited to represent them, in case the current representative continues to ignore their point of view would enhance the effectiveness of the platform and add to its popularity with the people.

Over a period of years when the platform is sufficiently popular the candidates who have got elected on the True Democracy platform will be in large numbers and when in majority, can make the step 3 - 'bringing in the partyless mechanism within the elected house' - a reality through suitable legislation, predictably first at the lowest level and then progressing to higher levels viz. from level 2-30-12 to 2-30 to level 2.

3) A possible enhancement of the concept would be to have the representative involved in the dialogue with the participants. In this way, there is a better chance the subtle nuances of the issues will be examined.

This is quite true.

4) Is there not a danger that the 'partyless mechanism within the elected house' will not be partyless, at all? The parties, at present, maintain their power by concerted action. Although trade unions are the easiest example to cite, they are not the sole operators of "get out the vote" machines. There can be little doubt they will use the same mechanisms to get their partisans to express their views and vote in the proposed method, just as they do now. It is true that the lay citizen has the option of expressing his view and voting, but will he? When he goes to the site and sees it flooded with partisan comments and a heavy one-sided vote, will he not feel just as ineffective as he does now?

The common man will increasingly find that the views expressed by him matters politically through the True Democracy platform. Initially it will be an uphill task when it is free for all. But once the platform proves itself by enabling candidates with true democratic spirit to get elected, then the political parties will be on the defensive. Till such time the members elected on the True Democracy platform outnumber those who are bound to political parties, views of every kind have to be met with both outside and within the elected house. A clear vision and a sound strategy would ensure the success of the platform.

5) The method envisions continuation of 'rule by representatives' until it can be tapered down to the extent possible. During this tapering down period, would we not be best served by public officials with integrity and good judgment?

This is the last stage and the collective will of the people expressed through the representatives will decide it. As you have said previously if the representatives truly reflect the will of the people then this stage may not be needed at all. Regarding public officials with integrity and good judgement, they will increasingly come into service once the representatives are elected in a truly democratic manner. Public officials in most of the present day democracies are probably recruited by a Public Service Commission independent of the electoral process (correct me if I am wrong). The quality of these officials will improve once the 'political interference into the bureaucracy' is on the wane through True Democracy.

Dealing with the fact that ideologies and political philosophies are natural for the human mind is the entire purpose of the troika method. Our goal is a government that represents the will of the people and serves the public interest. Ideologies and political philosophies are, by definition, the opposite of that. They represent what someone proclaims is best for the people. Such proclamations are never devoid of self-interest and are only good for the subset of the public that the ideology or political philosophy represents. Our purpose is to de-emphasize (not eliminate) ideology and emphasize the public interest.

You are right. However allowing the political parties outside the elected house gives every group to express its view. And it is the natural tendency of people with the same views to group together. The 'mechanism of partyless governance within the elected house' ensures that such grouping remains functional only outside the elected house. It is true that political groups can exist outside the elected house even in the troika system.

The troika method sets ideologies and political philosophies face to face in very small groups where they must persuade (not coerce) two other people (who also seek selection) that their view of the public welfare is better than that espoused by others, and they must do that ... not once ... but repeatedly. This process insures, not only that those who are selected are persuasive, but that they are able to present a rational basis for their selection. This is not a matter of swaying a crowd of people with glibness and inflaming public passion, it is a matter of explaining the value of one's point of view in a compelling manner ... so compelling that even those who also seek the same position accept the presentation.

The same qualities of rational thinking and sober persuasion will be favoured by the 'partyless mechanism within the elected house' and ensure that the representative with true democratic spirit makes himself heard within the elected house; again the same qualities will be needed for him to move up the political ladder. Since there is no legal necessity to fall in line with any political party and all are independents, only positive qualities will be rewarded both by the voters as well as other members within the house.

All I can say in its (Troika system) defense is that it is simple, it eliminates political campaigning, it eliminates the cost of campaigning (and the power that goes to those who finance the campaigns), it eliminates the atmosphere of cheating, lying and obfuscation that characterize politics (in America), and it makes integrity an important trait for those who wish selection to public office.

Since in the fully evolved 'Partyless Mechanism within the elected house' the political parties will be officially banned from election campaigns and all contestants will be independents, the advantages you have cited for the Troika system above are also applicable here. The political campaign will be business like and can be state sponsored in toto.

The Troika system will be especially useful to elect the leader of the house after the step 3 becomes a reality (in the fully evolved 'Partyless Mechanism within the elected house'). When all the elected members are independents, equals and aspiring to move up the political ladder, randomly dividing them into groups of threes and then proceeding further as you have explained, would throw up a leader and those closest to become a leader. I am not sure of the presidential system as in the US but in the parliamentary system as in Britain, the PM and the ministers can be conveniently elected in a truly democratic way by the Troika system.

With Regards,


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Subject Views Written By Posted
  Seeking True Democracy 1729 koikaze 09/06/2007 05:18AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 456 koikaze 09/25/2007 10:32AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 595 PVR 09/06/2007 10:48PM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 1312 koikaze 09/09/2007 06:33AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 551 MiKolar 09/18/2007 08:24PM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 465 koikaze 09/23/2007 08:25AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 446 RoyDaine 09/23/2007 10:02AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 447 koikaze 09/23/2007 10:12AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 427 RoyDaine 09/23/2007 11:24AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 426 MiKolar 09/24/2007 08:58PM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 450 BrEggum 09/24/2007 09:07PM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 458 RoyDaine 09/24/2007 11:31PM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 507 koikaze 09/21/2007 06:19AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 511 koikaze 09/20/2007 04:45AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 566 RoyDaine 09/20/2007 09:18AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 532 koikaze 09/21/2007 06:22AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 521 RoyDaine 09/21/2007 07:45AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 518 koikaze 09/22/2007 06:25AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 534 BrEggum 09/21/2007 08:42AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 508 koikaze 09/22/2007 06:30AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 527 RoyDaine 09/22/2007 08:09AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 549 BrEggum 09/22/2007 09:04AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 527 WebMaster 09/22/2007 06:37PM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 516 BrEggum 09/22/2007 07:09PM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 471 RoyDaine 09/22/2007 11:14PM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 464 BrEggum 09/22/2007 11:33PM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 464 RoyDaine 09/23/2007 12:00AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 462 BrEggum 09/22/2007 10:32PM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 453 MiKolar 09/24/2007 08:26PM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 449 BrEggum 09/24/2007 08:34PM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 502 WebMaster 09/29/2007 01:37PM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 490 WebMaster 09/22/2007 10:06PM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 513 RoyDaine 09/22/2007 09:39AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 500 RoyDaine 09/22/2007 08:31AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 547 BrEggum 09/22/2007 07:40AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 530 RoyDaine 09/21/2007 10:55AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 546 RoyDaine 09/21/2007 07:57AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 543 PVR 09/11/2007 04:52AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 526 koikaze 09/11/2007 01:34PM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 547 PVR 09/18/2007 05:50AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 529 koikaze 09/20/2007 04:41AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 496 PVR 09/21/2007 04:52AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 564 koikaze 09/21/2007 12:23PM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 533 PVR 09/21/2007 09:19PM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 462 koikaze 09/23/2007 07:48AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 523 koikaze 09/19/2007 11:39AM
  Re: Seeking True Democracy 586 koikaze 09/07/2007 02:01PM

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