Fred 09 21 2007

I reply in your post Fred. I don't know your country Fred, I thought you were some where in EU but your post says 'our' regarding US so where are you from? I am USA Wisconsin.

Posted by: koikaze (IP Logged)
Date: September 04, 2007 09:44AM

F> Good Morning,

I am anxious to participate in a discussion of "true democracy", but I'm not certain my interpretation of that term is in concert with the intent of this site. I would like to clear up that point. To do so, I will describe the reason for my apprehension. (When I came on-line to post this message, I found the Glossary of WDDM Terms and now believe my concept will be acceptable. Even so, I'll post my question.)

F> From what I've read here, true democracy seems to mean having the electorate vote on every issue of government. That, it seems to me, is unwieldy. Sooner or later, it must come down to the question of "Who buys the paper clips?"

B> This is my opinion. We are still developing the "glossary" and there are many meanings to a word. I prefer "democracy" to mean governing by the people. This means the people have the first say and the last. That does not mean they "do" everything but they authorize the things to be done, oversee/supervise and finance all government. Government being all the employee's and equipment needed for the community infrastructure. Government than is the agency of the people which accomplishes the directives of the people.

The King and his Men concept is that a MAN is needed to tell every one what to do authoritatively. The Kings men are his loyal enforcers, who discipline those who don't live up to the Kings rules. This is the concept that enabled Bush and Blair to "rule" with little opposition. Who dare question the King? and so on ------------- It is time to toss this concept, although the history allows us to see the wrongs so we don't need to do the same mistakes again.

To go from representative government ie the King and his men, to the people governing may take a bit of time. Thus using Initiative and Binding Referendum (what the people decide by Referendum is law) to govern the present Representative Government gives the people the authority to rule, but they may do so in steps. The people can accept more responsibility as they delegate their responsibility and hold accountable those who are delegated tasks.

There could be a "model" offered for the people to consider and "test" as a method of governance for their community. The model I suggest is the people meet through electronic means similar to Roy's great site verdict.net which allows them to offer Initiatives, discussion and re-writing of the Initiative until the initiatives are accepted or rejected by the community. The accepted Initiative is than offered as a Referendum ballot item for the people to accept or reject.

After doing this a few times and as their infrastructure develops, the people likely gain confidence and could begin governing earnestly. Regardless the people still maintain control through the I&BR statue.

F> Assuming, as I do, some entity must exist to administer the laws of the people, the entity must be staffed. Therefore, it is (in my opinion), virtually inevitable that the task of buying the (figurative) paper clips will be delegated to a staff member. If so, the staff member is functioning as a representative of the people ... buying paper clips in order to administer the laws expressing the will of the people.

The point is: The delegation of authority is an essential part of democracy.

B> Excellent point Fred. The people who are delegated this authority are employees of the people's community. I suggest the Administration, who hire, fire, and account for the community objectives could be elected for that position. The elected people could be recalled by the people with no fault finding necessary. This allows more direct supervision by the "administrative" people without concern over hiring firing practices. The Administration could employee people (police, health care workers, teachers all necessary employees for the community to accomplish the work of the Community. The administration would carry out audits and necessary evaluations to determine the employee's were accomplishing their assigned tasks. The administration would be held accountable and auditable for all expenditures. The administration would develop annual budgets for the community which in turn would be considered by the community and approved by referendum.

B> Of course there would be some expense for the "assembly" and the people could authorise themselves a budget.

I will pause here before discussing the concept of electing representatives, if needed.

Bruce Eggum Wisconsin USA
www.doinggovernment.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2007 10:42PM by BrEggum.