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02716: Re: [WDDM] Direct Democracy

From: "Ted Becker" <becketl(at)auburn.edu>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 13:09:04 -0500
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Direct Democracy

Yes, Lata, you are angry and frustrated...using "you people" as an
epithet...when those very same targets of abuse are your only allies.
Too bad. Wicked tongue. No help.

In truth, you don't seem to understand that democracy is a
self-organizing process, although it sometimes takes a few enlightened
ones to help facilitate it. If you are really looking to see how it
works, how it self organizes, and what the role of democratic
facilitation is, you might read Chapter 16 of The Last, Lost Empire.
You'll see there are more than ample examples...with actual effective
experiments...all over the world....in progress now....and they are NOT
what you mention.

Go DO SOMETHING DEMOCRATIC where you live....right now....like I have
been DOING for over 35 years and continue to do...despite democracy's
enemies. I don't participate in this WDDM much, except when someone as
insulting as you comes along. Get off WDDM's forum and join up with
projects in progress like many of WDDM's network are doing. Why don't
you save your vitriol for the oligarchs?

Ted

Lata Gouveia <latalondon(at)yahoo.co.uk> 10/26/2010 12:02 PM >>>
You cannot ask your enemies for funding.
They know what sort of impact this would have on the re-distribution of
wealth.
It was not my intention to knocj WDDM on principle but... if it's been
around
for a long time (10 years) it is not keeping up with societal
evolution.

When I was learning to swim, my teacher told me I was wasting twice as
much
energy as I needed to just splashing around.

I hope you can infer something constructive out of my opinions. When
you say
"the core or nucleus of those devoted to this
idea and ideal stays alive by and through it" not only do you prove my
point
(core nucleus sounds pretty exclusive to me) but also, I have to
disagree.

Most people, like myself and Alex, love the idea of DD and then we came
out
looking for like minded people. It was not WDDM that made me "see the
light". I
just thought that there was someone organized and practical about
achieving this
objective.

Organize as many conferences as you like. If Lady GAGA or another
celebrity came
out supporting this cause (assuming therewas a procedural consensus) it
would do
more for DD in 24 hours than what WDDM achieved in a decade. Democracy
is about
the masses... if you can't reach them, it becomes an intellectual
exercise for a
"core nucleus", the idea of which is rather old and hierarchical.

I am interested in user friendly, captivating, addictive and practical
processes
to allow DD to spread naturally, like a virus. I'm not interested in a

University lecture about the pros and cons of the Californian
referendum system
or the Swiss model/

Until you people find a way to explain it to a 4 year old and provide
an easy,
interesting, stimulating and rewarding platform, you will never have
the people
on your side... and you will never have DD. I'm trying to be as
constructive as
possible.

For 3 years I have hoped that I could find people with the necessary
skills to
put this kind of platform in place. But nobody here took it seriously
because I
talked about it as a "game" that doesn't give us a chance to display
our
"superior" knowledge.


Why do you people fail to understand that this is a concept that needs
to be
sold to the masses, not to the people who profit from the current
constitutional
framework? If we has 1% of the people who play online poker, we could
change the
world. A conference in Prague is not going to reach them... nor the
translation
and publishing of academic thesis. The idea is simple, keep it simple.
It's like
an Ebay of individual political power that needs to be attained as a
reward for
participation and emancipation (the pursuit of knowledge). Like a
game... but
one that can change the World.

We will never get there otherwise, not through leaders, representatives
and
authorities on the subject. They had those in Ancient Greece.

I don't mean to be antagonistic but you people frustrate the hell out
of me.
Sorry.
We all know what DD is. What is the most effective way of avoiding its
problems
(mass ignorance) ?

Solve this puzzle and you will change the World. Even better, 10 year
old
children will change it for you, if you make it simple and user
friendly.
Lata






________________________________
From: Ted Becker <becketl(at)auburn.edu>
To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Sent: Tue, 26 October, 2010 15:53:57
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Direct Democracy

Dear Lata:

I was at the founding of WDDM in Athens ten years ago...but after long
talks with the original organizers, I told them I did not think an
organization was needed. I did favor a Newsletter, which Dr. Jiri
Polak
has worked at faithfully and superbly for the past decade. That is
one
achievement of WDDM. The other is the website maintained by Mirik.
He
puts in a lot of time and while the discussions are pretty much as
limited as you describe, the core or nucleus of those devoted to this
idea and ideal stays alive by and through it. In addition, I am
personally grateful to the WDDM website for putting up 10 translations
of Becker's Laws of Political Economy--which is now available to many
people...and which, I believe, explain a lot of why WDDM is (a)
relatively ineffectual and (b) vulnerable to the critique you levy
against it.

The biggest problem by far is that those with money and power give us
zero resources--despite many efforts by many of us in the DD, or as I
prefer to call it, the DDD Movement. Take George Soros as an example.

He's supposed to be favorable to democracy, particularly in East
Europe,
and we couldn't get a Euro, dollar or pound from him to help with our
two conferences. It's very frustrating. But we keep on trying and
even
now are making some serious efforts to get something done...but I
wouldn't bet on it...despite the obvious fact that all of the national
and global oligarchies are leading the world off a cliff.

So, if you have a spare hundred thousand Euros, then please put it
into
a conference we want to do in Prague next year sometime. It'll be a
huge success. If not, have a little mercy on all of us who have been
struggling for a loooooong time to make our movement impactful. We
are
operating against some pretty powerful people in this world and try to
stay together in any way that we can. In that way, WDDM has been a
HUGE
success, that is, it survives...and will...with or without you.

Ted Becker

Lata Gouveia <latalondon(at)yahoo.co.uk> 10/26/2010 5:30 AM >>>
Aahahahah!!!!!!!!!

Welcome to the real world!!
To think that you, as an intellectual elite can set the agenda on
anything of
actual consequence is foolish.

Who are you?
This agenda setting job... who gave it to you? Why am I not using WDDM

correctly? Why am I not staying up to date? Why do I get bored every
time I try
to figure out how WDDM works even though I am passionate about DD? Why
is WDDM
not more appealing to even me?

Something is wrong with this picture, gentlemen. Your approach is
flawed. Your
little elitist club has shown no concern towards promoting Direct
Democracy and
engaging people. This is not just a problem, this flaws your raison
d'etre. It
confirms my worst suspicions, ahahahahah.....

You claim to have an interest in this concept but you keep acting from
an
intrinsic assumption of hierarchy, trying to lead, set the agenda,
talk
people
down on their ability to think and READ. Who the hell are you to tell
me I am
off subject, sir? You are off subject... and wasting our time.

You don't realize how incoherent your methodology and approach is in
terms of
the cause and principles you claim to hold dear.

Keep your little debate, your little group, your little righteousness.
WDDM has
no voice... not one that reaches further than your computer screen.
But
that
doesn't matter to you, so long as your intellectual ego feels
vindicated.

If you don't get the people on board, DD will never happen.
I am actually interested in DD and feel most unwelcome by you clowns
so...
imagine if I wasn't interested, like the majority of people.
That's what you are dealing with, if you areserious about DD. How to
win people
over. Debate that,

Gentlemen.... may you all a fruitful and meaningful life







________________________________
From: Giorgio Menon <giorgio.menon(at)pd.infn.it>
To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Sent: Tue, 26 October, 2010 9:54:36
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Direct Democracy

Il 26/10/2010 11.52, Georges Metanomski ha scritto:

So far, Metanomski show that we not only ignore what's "debate', but
don't

know how to read. Seems hopeless.



Couldn't agree more





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