Dear Luca, Bruce and all,
Those of us who have declared preference for Simpol- ( www.simpol.org ) -adopting candidates at elections and who take steps to seek consensus of fellow Simpol-adopters to build substantial voter consensus on monetary and other multilateral law reform are slowly growing support within the unfair economc and legal systems (Washington, Zurich and wherever elites suppress democracy) to reform them. DE ==== On 03/01/2010, at 2:56 AM, Luca Zampetti wrote: GO AND DO IT IN WASHINGTON.
LZ
Da: Bruce Eggum <bruce.eggum(at)gmail.com>
A: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Inviato: Sab 2 gennaio 2010, 16:54:49
Oggetto: Re: [WDDM] World Government
Dear Luca, Yes DD includes the things you mention and a lot more. Whatever the people decide. But first the people must use their power to petition authorized by Magna Carta and demand DD, Initiative and Binding Referendum. As it is the people, with the exception of Switzerland, have no direct method to express their demands to the UN, any nation, state, community. We can not even have direct decisions on Carbon, pollution, water use, land use, air contamination etc. Initiative is a word meaning idea, suggestion, plan, proposed law, petition etc. which introduces this to the people for consideration. If a substantial number [determined by the people] endorse the Initiative, it is brought forward to a Referendum so all people can have their say by voting for or against. A Referendum is the process we often call election which is the process of decision democratically or by consensus, [decided by the people.] Regards Bruce, by the way, I send many emails each day to President, Congress, Agency's, etc. Like talking to the wall. That is why we need DD so our demands are required to be implemented. Bruce Eggum Gresham Wisconsin, USA Health Care http://tinyurl.com/ycx9vpzhttp://usinitiative.comhttp://vote.org/On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 9:27 AM, < Luca Zampetti> wrote: Bruce, you have one interesting characteristic: you want to REDUCE the definition of DD to things which are not. DD is also recall. DD is also popular veto. DD is financial referendum DD is OBLIGATORY and facultative direct democratic procedures. DD is constitutional conventions, first of anything else. DD is direct election of judges, especially constitutional judges (exists in 8 US states, I bet you know which ones ...) DD is Vernehmlassungsverfahren (kinda public hearings). DD is facultative and obligatory financial referendums. DID YOU REALIZE? BRUCE: THERE IS A REVOLUTION GOING ON, RIGHT UNDER YOUR BUTT. DID YOU REALIZE? THIS TIME WHO DO YOU WANT TO ELECT AS A PRESIDENT, THE CEO OF GOLDMAN SACHS, BERNANKE OR BOTH? STAY PUT BRUCE, WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT MEANS TO BE GOVERNED BY YOUR MONETARY PRIESTS, FROM THE INVASION OF SICILY TO PIAZZA FONTANA TO THE BOLOGNA STATION BOMB ... TRY TO CLEAN UP YOUR HOME FIRST, IT IS A MESS ... YOUR GOVERNMENT WANTS TO PROVOKE A NUCLEAR WAR AGAINST IRAN BECAUSE THIS TIME THERE IS NO HITLER, NO SADDAM HUSSEIN, NOONE AND NOTHING TO DISTRACT THE ATTENTION OF THE WORLD FROM THIS CLUMSY ATTEMPT OF ITS BANKRUPT BANKING SYSTEM TO ENSLAVE IT WITH ANOTHER PRIVATE CENTRAL WORLD BANK ... MAYBE THE NEXT 4 TRILLION BAIL OUT RELEASED BY CONGRESS ON CHRISTMAS EVE WILL DO THIS TIME, BANKRUPT ALL STATES IN THE WORLD SO THAT GS, JPM, BOFA CAN "SAVE" US ... IT WON´T WORK THIS TIME ... YOU ARE LUCKY THAT THE SONS AND THE DAUGTHERS OF SO MANY POOR ARE IN THE ARMED FORCES AND IN THE NATIONAL GUARD, BECAUSE THEY WILL NOT OPEN THE FIRE ON OTHER POORS LIKE THEMSELVES. THE PARTY IS OVER. WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO DO IS THE SAME THING YOUR "FOUNDING FATHERS" DID IN THE FIRST REVOLUTION: KILL DIRECT DEMOCRACY. YOU WILL NEED TO KILL ALL TRUE DIRECT DEMOCRATS THIS TIME. YOUR CREDIBILITY IS ZERO. LZ
Da: Bruce Eggum <bruce.eggum(at)gmail.com>
A: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Inviato: Sab 2 gennaio 2010, 16:07:33
Oggetto: Re: [WDDM] World Government
LZ Bush family is not "in office" although they are part of the controlling bunch. Perhaps repetition works for you LZ. Until we have established Direct Democracy with Initiative and Binding Referendum we have no power to address government at all. Start here: http://vote.org/Regards, Bruce Bruce Eggum Gresham Wisconsin, USA Health Care http://tinyurl.com/ycx9vpz http://usinitiative.comhttp://vote.org/On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 9:01 AM, < Luca Zampetti> wrote: SHOW ME YOUR LAST EMAIL TO BUSH (FATHER & SON), PAULSON, BERNANKE AND GEITHNER WHERE YOU ASK THEM HOW THEY USE THE MONEY POWERS OF YOUR "GOVERNMENT"
LZ
Da: Bruce Eggum <bruce.eggum(at)gmail.com>
A: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Inviato: Sab 2 gennaio 2010, 15:58:37
Oggetto: Re: [WDDM] World Government
A bit about our money mess and some of the things our DD Infrastructure must address [as soon as we develop an infrastructure] : http://tinyurl.com/ydebmm7Bruce Eggum Gresham Wisconsin, USA Health Care http://tinyurl.com/ycx9vpzhttp://usinitiative.com http://vote.org/On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:28 AM, < Luca Zampetti> wrote: YOU ARE DISREPECTFUL TO THE CONCEPT OF DIRECT DEMOCRACY.
THIS WEBSITE IS A SCAM.
HOW DO YOU WANT TO CONVINCE ANYBODY OF SOMETHING YOU FEAR???
I AM NOT AVAILABLE FOR BLACKMAILING, ESPECIALLY WHEN SOMEBODY TRIES TO PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH I NEVER SAID.
GO BACK TO SLEEP BRUCE, AT LEAST YOU MAKE NO DAMAGES SLEEPING.
LZ
Da: Bruce Eggum <bruce.eggum(at)gmail.com>
A: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Inviato: Sab 2 gennaio 2010, 15:22:08
Oggetto: Re: [WDDM] World Government
Dear Luca, Your disrespectful HOLLERING AND PUTTING PEOPLE DOWN is quite intolerable. Please converse in acceptable manner. Luca you repeatedly put down the Swiss way as inadequate, which makes me think you do not understand the concept. The choice is: government running all of us [representative government RD] which means they are in charge of money, our behavior and everything. or
all of the people running government [referred to as Direct Democracy DD]. With DD Initiative and Binding Referendum the people can maintain the power to alter and operate their government as they choose.
Presently RD is in control in most governments. With RD in control, the government controls the money and everything, Not paying taxes, demonstrations, petitions, electing other representatives does not change this. Of course DD is not a magical thing, it simply gives the people the power. DD is simply a democratic process which can be used if the people choose to use it. The key here is democratic because it takes work to develop an Initiative and garner the necessary support.. You want control of finances, money. What are you going to do with that power? Should I trust you to control our money? Do you have a written plan with checks and balances? Who audits your control of our money? How will you determine the value of our money in relation to the rest of the world? No Lucca, first we establish the people's power with DD. Than the people must develop the infrastructure they choose, including how they control their money. This will likely be a continuous process. Regards, Bruce Bruce Eggum Gresham Wisconsin, USA Health Care http://tinyurl.com/ycx9vpzhttp://usinitiative.com http://vote.org/On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 7:00 AM, < Luca Zampetti> wrote: Who said here that what is needed is an ARMY of DIRECT DEMOCRATS, ME OR YOU?
I mean 99% of the people flooding this website with EVERYTHING, except for direct democracy.
There can be only 2 reasons for this: either you (this is a plural, not a SINGULAR) don´t know what you are talking about or you are hypocrits .... in some cases of course both apply.
You is both singular and plural in English, Hamid, independently of the number of countries where you or others have been living ..... that´s a chance of nature, not a political matter.
Study Swiss constitutional law, Hamid, then you can answer a large part of your questions by yourself, as anybody else here can do. It´s written since 1848, just read it - AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND IT.
Then there is the problem that that model of direct democracy, which is the ONLY ONE WORKING THAT IS KNOWN, is not sufficient.
For example it does not address the issue of monetary justice, it does not instutionalize constitutional assemblies and has other missing points.
Do you really think that there is some other mean for controlling the state than controlling its money?
Of course there is no other means.
You want to have a world of peace?
THEN YOU NEED TO CONTROL DIRECTLY THE STATES FINANCIAL BEHAVIOUR, OF ALL STATES.
How is the state controlling you? PERHAPS CONTROLLING YOUR MONEY, YOUR CREDIT AND YOUR DEBTS? EVEN WHEN YOU SLEEP? It that possible, Hamid?
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE AMONG STATES HAMID, THEY ARE LIKE WASHING POWDER: JUST THE LABEL IS DIFFERENT, THEY DO ALL THE SAME JOB - AND World Government is GOING TO THE THE SAME ... OR WORSE. AND ON TOP OF THEM YOU FIND EVERYWHERE THE SAME PARASITES: THE MONEY LENDERS BACKFEEDING POLITICIANS WHO SERVICE THEM.
We are here discussing this because since 1776 the rich are abusing legislative AND OTHER POLITICAL POWERS of formally constitutional government to keep poor human beings under conditions of enslavement, even if they are endowed with "constitutional rights".
Read Federalist Papers 19 and 42 AND FINALLY UNDERSTAND WHY THE SYSTEM OF REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNMENT EXISTS - AND NEEDS TO BE "EXPORTED" OR EXTORTED ALSO FROM THOSE WHO REJECT IT.
NOONE IS ALLOWED TO REJECT IT, AS LONG AS PEOPLE CAN BE ENSLAVED BY DEBT.
LZ
Da: Hamid Mohseni <esi1mohseni2(at)hotmail.com>
A: World Direct Democracy <wddm@world-wide-democracy.net>
Inviato: Sab 2 gennaio 2010, 13:24:30
Oggetto: RE: [WDDM] World Government
You don´t know enough about me to state that I am incompetent. I have been living and seen many different countries with different culture and political and economical reality. Do you think those in power give up their power and accept your financial refrandum? What are your alternative and how practically are you going to implement them alone? Hamid
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 09:55:54 +0000 From: luca_zampetti(at)yahoo.itTo: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net Subject: Re: [WDDM] World Government Hamid, do you ask yourself sometimes if you know what you are talking about? Together with some other fifth column proxies of the NWO around here? How is it possible that there are people who have the disgusting willingness to discuss silly voting systems when here we are in the midst of the provoking of a nuclear war just to impose the right to govern the world by central banks and their most favourite corporations? How does it come that noone of the geniuses of this so-called direct democratic movement does not know ANYTHING about the ONLY instrument that can stop this plan, i.e. the FINANCIAL REFERENDUM AT EVERY GOVERNMENT LEVEL, on taxation and on debt production, from the municipality to the international organization level? People do not follow you not because they do not like direct democracy, but because you are incompetent or hypocritical about it, or both, because you don´t understand it and because you can´t explain it correctly to them. You are not credible, that´s all. If you do not realize that the ONLY way to convince more people to wake up from their media-induced coma, from their artificially induced poverty, joblessness and fear of living IS TO INTRODUCE THE FINANCIAL REFERENDUM AT EVERY LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT - and hence wipe away central banks -, you will continue to do to DD the same thing that DD is doing to itself since 250 years: suicide. This web site is a weapon of mass distraction. LZ PS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9Ksez51_mY------------------------------------------------------------------------- Da: Esi < esi1mohseni2(at)hotmail.com> A: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Inviato: Sab 2 gennaio 2010, 00:57:34
Oggetto: Re: [WDDM] World Government
Happy to know that you don´t support it.. I watched it again just now and it was interesting to know which mentally sick people are in power in the world. It is not so difficult to fight these people. It is only to avoid to do what they desire, search knowledge and mind about your´s and other normal peoples interest for peace and happiness. These crazy people are also made of flesh and blood and die as other people sometime.
Supporting democracy split the power to all individuals and limits these sick people´s influence over other people. Regards Hamid Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 11:47 PM To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net Subject: Re: [WDDM] World Government Hamid, l don't support it l am showing you what we are fighting against, to introduce Direct Democracy, see we would properly be see a liberals, and that is one thing they hate. Cheers Martin ----- Original Message ----- To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [WDDM] World Government
I don´t see religion as right breeding ground for supporting DD.. I respect all individuals right to beleive to what they like and participate with one vote each in decisions over the societies. I see no reason to discuss religion and repeat what is said by philosophers and historicers before me in this board. I prefer scientific way of thinking based on exact definitions, reasonable arguments, evidences and experiments which can be repeated wirh similar results. Religion does not follow above way of thinking. They don´t even have any exact definition for what god is or acceptable arguments for (his / her / it´s?) existance. I am eager to discuss and help to build DD societies or world organizations but if you like to discuss religion I refer to philosophy, history and religious statements and people who are interested to invest their time for this kind of discussions..
Happy new year and thank you because you mind to discuss with me Hamid Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 12:02 AM To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net Subject: Re: [WDDM] World Government
The reason the church has been used is that they will stick to the mission, where within the nobility families there is a lot power struggles.
Cheers Martin
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