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00969: [cicdd] Re: [WDDM] NO more Resignations- Let's start again!!
From: |
Antonio Rossin <rossin(at)tin.it> |
Date: |
Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:38:39 +0100 |
Subject: |
[cicdd] Re: [WDDM] NO more Resignations- Let's start again!! |
Dear George, and dear WDDM members
I agree with Bernard's position below, and therefore:
please accept my resignation from the current WDDM
Yes, George, WDDM has suffered, and is still suffering,
from
a childhood illness: that of one's wish to rule over
others.
Really, I've already done my "Let's try it!!"
democratic duty.
Indeed, as you can know, I have been a member of WDDM-1.
What you can't know, it is that when WDDM has died, thanks
to the idiocy of some bureaucrats wanting to rule over
direct
democracy, I and Mirek and George Sagi (WDDM-1 funder)
discussed about the opportunity to keep WDDM alive, with a
new WDDM domain (since Pino, the WDDM-1 secretariat
and web-master, gave up being the WDDM web-master but
he maintained the original WDDM domain property).
It happened two years ago. To keep on with a WDDM 2
being
up, a new WDDM domain had to be purchased. I and
Mirek
agreed to set up a WDDM 2 with him as the web-master, and
I as the funder. So I made a donation for a two years WDDM
Internet account as my last contribution.
I made so because of reasons of consistency with the
democratic
mission I subscribed as a WDDM-1 founding member. At start,
I
but said to Mirek that I was happy to found WDDM-2, but I
didn't
want to be a WDDM member any more, to avoid discussions
with
the bureaucrats like those that infected WDDM-1.
Yet Mirek insisted to have me in the new WDDM-2 membership,
and I accepted.
All of this, to say that I've made my "let's try", all
during these
WDDM-2 years of life. I'm sorry to admit, my trial has
failed.
That is, after these two years, I see again the bureaucrats
who
manage to set up rules over what should be Direct
Democracy,
and yourself, George Kokkas, who suggest WDDM to install
a
"Decision Committee" without having any democratic
policy --
say, a policy coming from the territory bottom-up -- to...
decide?
I think I've concluded my WDDM-2 trial. Direct
Democracy
is not a matter of voting directly, IMHO . It is a matter of
:
1. originating policies from the territory bottom-up; and
2. controlling directly those representatives who may have
been
put in charge of implementing 1. policies (see Simpol).
All the remaining is Democracy without matter, a dream for
generals without army, or for aspirant DD drivers who put
the
cart before the horse -- like the charter before the
people.
In conclusion, I agree with Bernard, and subscribe:
I will be interested in returning, or joining a progressive
group,
if there is any sign of willingness to TRY different
approaches.
Meanwhile ........ you should make good progress with me
out
of the way.
Be well,
antonio
At 6:48 +0200 30-01-2007, George L. Kokkas Law Office
wrote:
Dear WDDM
members,
we found finally a
solution in the DD oriented structure models for the Greek
DD Movement, by having in all our decisional committees a
majority of permanent and really active members and
a minority of all the other members (including the
rest of the active), selected by sortition and giving them all a
chance to decision-making by rotation, until the whole list of
members finishes (for instance in a proposed 11 members
Coordination Committee of WDDM, we can appoint 6 or 7
members, as permanent for a period of one or two years and 5 or
4 members rotating among all the rest of members every
six months in the post of this main organ of WDDM - similarly
with the Security Council of United Nations, that has the ex
super powers of the world as permanent members and all the other
countries, as Greece in this period , as members of this decisional
mean of the entire world).
This
is my FINAL PROPOSAL for WDDM structure and decision
making procedures, even with simple e-mail systems, coming out
of my experience as a democrat lawyer and as almost the
only active Founding member of WDDM and an elected ex Vice
Spokesperson of WDDM, in order to avoid our childhood illnesses
in the future!
Let's try
it!!
George L.
Kokkas
NGO "Forum for
Citizens' Democracy"
----- AɦÉ?É«É»Þ
É ÐÉÀÉ“É Éø -----
(snip)
On 1/28/07,Bernard Clayson wrote:
Please accept my resignation from wddm.
Reasons:
a) I am too busy locally to watch paint dry on this list, and it is a
non-contributary distraction
from my primary objective - to find out how democracy works with
people.
12 years ago I started constructing New Political System, it had
numerous levels and a defined
structure.
Ditto with Lee's model and others.
About 5 years ago I constructed Phoenix, a multi-level structured
email system that was capable of
keeping everyone informed without involving those with other interests
on the other lists.
The most vocal objection (same name as a USA Vietnam war program) came
from someone who realises (at
last) that -
"I think a good idea to recognize that we each have different
talents and"
b) "to join together like people into nine groups to bring out
their specialty is a good idea.
Nine? at the current rate of progress, in 20 years time it will sink
in that nine is totally
inadequate for the job in hand, and it will be totally academic to
most of us anyway.
c) It would not be too wild a guess that these 'nine' groups would be
on the web i.e. we would have
to go looking to follow what is happening.
I live in the UK (which is rapidly heading to dictatorship), yet I get
regular summaries with links
to download the full detail .... if it interests me.
I can't be the only one with a slow connection, and if a dictatorial
government can keep me
informed, why can't wddm.
d) "we need an organisation" - even a one-man business
operates in different modes, an electrician
would not (if he wanted to live) connect to the mains whilst thinking
about his tax returns.
Ditto with companies, government and organisations, yet 6 years later,
wddm is still trying to
function on a single plane email system, and complains about
confusion.
e) A founding member of wddm is rebuked (for making a suggestion) with
-
"The topic is WDDM Charter, not various kinds of DD or
government. If you want to advocate for a
specific DD model or type, you can do so on WDDM Website using Forum
and WIKI"
The same dictatorial approach that caused me to resign the first
wddm.
f) "we need a voting system" - in 25 years time, assuming a
voting system is introduced, you will
have voted yourselves in to a corner with the advocates saying
"well we voted on that".
Which is the situation that gave cause to my second public-run
referendum.
g) In 30 years time, it may occur to some that there are
more important aspects than voting.
If someone could please show me the exit, I would appreciate
it.
I will be interested in returning, or joining a
progressive group, if there is any sign of
willingness to TRY different approaches.
Meanwhile ........ you should make good progress with me
out of the way.
Adios amigos
Regards
Bernard
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