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00265: Re: various (lozenge etc.)

From: Antonio Rossin <rossin(at)tin.it>
Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 15:27:46 +0200
Subject: Re: various (lozenge etc.)

Jiri, (and Mirek)

I agree with you -- PROVIDED ONLY the "temporary leaders" you are
pointing to do not pretend or claim themselves to be a democratic leader.
Further, such a leader must expose in clear details the goal s/he is leading
at, especially its DD paralleling reason and the tools-resources s/he owns
and wants to enact

antonio



At 13:20 +0200 23-05-2005, Jiri Polak wrote:
Hello,
I agree with Mirek. In the future, fully developed democratic
systems, there will not be any need to have leaders (but there will
always be necessary to have some structures ensuring the running og
the system). We are not there yet. At this stage, when we are barely
beginning to discuss truly democratic systems and attempt, by trial
and error, to put in place some rudimentary mechanisms, leaders ARE
needed! Current DD leaders do not get payed, they do what they do
because of deep conviction and concern about the future of mankind.
Therefore, there is no corruption and no reason to distrust this
type of leadership. We should be grateful to all those who assume a
(temporary) role as leaders in certain areas.
Sincerely, Jiri Polak
----- Original Message ----- From: "WDDM webmaster"
<wbm@world-wide-democracy.net>
To: <wddm@world-wide-democracy.net>
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 3:27 AM
Subject: Re: various (lozenge etc.)


Just a few questions/comments from your "part-time" webmaster:

1. Do you want me to delete completely some of the "masturbation
prattles" pages from the Wiki? Which ones?

2. There may actually be more recent activity than it is currently
visible on "Recent" and "Comments" pages. Because "blog" and
"forum" are add-ons to the Wiki, the new submissions to them do not
appear on the "Recent" page (top Wiki menu). I'll try to correct
this.

3. What Bruce is doing (local referenda) is very valuable. But can
a single person organize something like that in a community with
one million inhabitants? That would be impossible with putting at
first some DD structure in place, and securing the means
(financing) for a referendum in a million-people city.

Therefore other activities (such as Georges' simulations in
smaller groups) are also important to prepare for the acceptance of
DD.

In this context, I would return to my earlier post about WDDM
mission. It was probably not well understood. I was not doubting
that our goal (principle mission) is the promotion and achievement
of DD. I was suggesting to try to come up with what we, in this for
now small group, can do to achieve this goal. Could we think about
it some more? What can we concentrate on?

One obvious thing is to use WDDM as a place to report on our
local practical efforts, as Bruce suggest.

I was thinking that WDDM could (also) become a laboratory or
model for DD. Has anybody actually already succeeded in creating a
truly "horizontal" group/organization without leading elites, in
which everybody would have an equal voice/opportunity? (It seems to
me that WDDM members are somewhat lost, expecting some sort of
leadership, in spite of their professed stands against the top-down
approach. Could we truly self-organize instead?)
That is why I think we need to develop some procedural structure,
procedures how to collectively process proposals and come to
conclusions without having a dominating person or committee. I
don't think this is "masturbation". If we succeeded, it might be
quite valuable contribution on the way to DD.

A related question: Is there any place in DD for leaders? Or
better: What is the role of leaders/facilitators in DD? Some people
are more initiative than others. They instigate change. Do we need
some formal checks to prevent them to also usurp most of the
decision making?

More: how to accommodate people (e.g. like me), who do not have
time to devote all their time to public matters? That would be a
vast majority of all the people in any future DD. People will
always have to take care of their lives, feed their families, etc.
It would be necessary to find ways how not to overload people with
unessential information, and still provide everybody with all the
objective information needed to participate in making informed
decision.

Etc. ...

Mirek



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