Re: FW: [cicdd] EU Referendum and EU Constitution

[Antonio Rossin <rossin(at)tin.it>]

Laila, and Chris

If we wanted to call things with their name, the political
arrangement you are in favour of is not "democracy".
It is bureaucracy.

Also, the political arrangement that Joseph Thompson is
pointing out to, and that so many people call "democracy"
is not democracy.  It is aristocracy (with politicians in the
role of the modern aristocrats) or, by digging a little back
to them, plutocracy.

The recent French referendum about a policy called "EU
Constitution" proved that
        "Top-down policies with a bottom-up origin
        are the only ones that function effectively"

Plainly, the EU Constitution had no bottom-up origin, and
this seems the major reason of its flop. Of course, I am
in favour of  your view, that "politics like administration
should not be managed by citizens who have not skills
and are not certified for these fields of activity".  That is,
"officials" who have skills and are certified for those fields
of activity, implementing policies, look quite necessary.

But the policies they implement MUST  BE  ORIGINATED
by the people grassroots bottom-up, and NOT  by the officials
themselves top-down, be the latter bureaucrats, experienced
politicians, scientists, successful businessmen -- or finally, by
the "democracy activists".

That is, only when the people are allowed - facilitated to
make their voices be heard from bottom-up, the political
arrangement in office can be adjudged "democracy".

Regards,

antonio


At 13:02 +0300 31-05-2005, Laila Ciogolea wrote:
>  Dear all,
>  Let me indroduce myself first. I live and work in Romania,
>  a former communist country, and by consequence in a fresh
>  democracy.
>  Although Mr. Thomson is right in every respect, I would dare
>  say that politics like administration should not be managed by
>  citizens who have not skills and are not certified for these
>  fields of activity. I work in administration and, watching the
>  requirements in applying for a job in terms of studies and
>  expertise for the junior experts, I wonder why the president
>  and the parliamentaries are not required to be first and
>  foremost experts in administration. They are everything but
>  not what it takes. As a consequence, their aim is not the
>  wellbeing of the people but their own wellbeing and their
>  target is their own business. As a result, people watch them
>  becoming rich, as they, the voters are becoming poor. The
>  elections are like in antiquity in Rome. Nobody knows
>  anything about managing a country but everybody has the
>  right to take a political decision, and they do not know what
>  is the difference between socialists, liberals and democrats.
>  Their doctrine is electing "who promisses more".
>
>  As far as "the European project" is concerned I think it's
>  a little utopic but it might be worth trying. Romania is
>  endevouring to modernize and to adopt European legislation
>  We are entitled by our culture and highly skilled labour force.
>  I know that the Roma population (which is provided by all the
>  East European area in fact) spoiled our image. Europeans
>  don't know about George Enescu (famous composer who
>  lived in Paris), Mircea Eliade (great religion and philosophy
>  professor who lived in New York), Brancusi (famous sculptor
>  who lived in Paris), mathematicians in the Silicon Valley, etc.
>  but are scared by the Roma people because our ellites
>  remained home to build and to work and the people without
>  jobs fled over borders.
>  Increasing GDP and maximising profits are targets in all
>  forms of governance, but the question is for whom? For a
>  few individuals or for all the citizens? Or the profit ought to
>  be shared between the workers...?
>
>  That's enough I think,
>
>  Laila Ciogolea ... in Bucharest, Romania
>  (<http://www.spirit.ro> www.spirit.ro), where global warming
>  it's at its own home
>
> Laila Ciogolea
> +40 (0) 21-3011513
> +40 722-478157
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C THOMSON
> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 9:12 AM
> To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
> Subject: Re: [cicdd] EU Referendum and EU Constitution
>
> Dear All
>
>  As a latecomer to this conversation, I find myself agreeing
>  with everyone and disagreeing with everyone at the same
> time. Strange? Yes, but true.
>
>  I live in Europe, albeit in the reluctant appendage known as
>  the UK.  As you all know, most of the people who voted in
>  the recent UK General Election do not have their views
>  represented in the the new government of Tony Blair, because
>  because of the electoral system. The majority of us here,
>  especially in my home country Scotland, are not neoliberals or
>  neoconservatives (it's odd, but these two words apparently
>  mean the same thing). So that's the first point of agreement
>  and disagreement. We have "democracy" in Europe, but in
>  nearly all the member states it's a very odd form of
>  democracy, in which the views of a minority prevail over the
>  majority. It's causing a lot of resentment and disillusionment,
>  and those in minority power clearly have no incentive to
>  change the system.
>
>  The second point of agreement-disagreement concerns
>  economics and "prosperity". It's quite true that there's more
>  money swilling around than ever before in human history, but I
>  cannot help noticing that inequality is increasing, that people
>  seem unhappier than they were a few decades ago, that
>  mental and emotional illness are at record levels, and that the
>  planet and all life on it are more threatened than ever. We
>  may be the richest species on the planet, but we are also the
>  most dangerous and destructive. We have managed to cause
>  at least 15 holocausts in the last three hundred years, many of
>  them much bigger than the Nazis-Jews holocaust of the 1940s.
>  We make great white sharks look gentle by comparison
>
>  So, I have to question the "European project". I am all in
>  favour of people living in peace with each other. But I do
>  wonder whether a project designed mainly to increase GDP
>  and maximise profits for eternity is really what human beings
>  were designed for.
>
>  Best wishes
>
>  Chris Thomson....in Edinburgh, Scotland, where global
>  warming manifests as global cooling and global wetting
>
>
>  Chris Thomson
>
>  Landline:     +44 (0) 131-447-9356
>
>  Mobile:        +44 (0) 7961-968888