Re: [WDDM] Constructive pragmatism

[Bruce Eggum <bruce.eggum(at)gmail.com>]

There may be a misconception about what the AIM of WDDM is.

My understanding WDDM AIM was to assist people in developing Direct Democracy in their own jurisdictions. This would include local [town] as well as county, state and nation. I realize others use different terms for nation state etc. expect you will adjust them.

To develop Direct Democracy takes websites which can be assessed. They must be set up securely to receive text messages from phone or email, or direct access. A member than would have access, and anonymous user-id could be used within the site if that is necessary.

These websites are the base, the place to begin development by the people. [recruitment is often difficult but in person meetings and media help]

WDDM can assist in this programming so people can develop their DD.

We are NOT making a constitution to run someone else's area. That is the work of people within the jurisdiction to make their own constitution, if they want one. What we are doing is suggesting steps to build the necessary infrastructure so the people can initiate, deliberate, and finally make a formal Initiative for their own jurisdiction the people may consider.

Nothing is finalized until a referendum is past by the people of that jurisdiction.

There are now many many sites for deliberation on the net. UK, US, Latin
America, Africa and many other country’s. Some do it all with phones. We need to make use of the method used locally. What they need is the concept of how to make petitions, and how to gain support for their petitions [many emails of support even from another country have changed things recently]

It has always seemed there was competition here trying to pick “the one”. I differ with that idea. WDDM can offer many different ways, mix and match too. Aki has always been the “telephone guy” to me. There are some country's which do not have internet, but use telephone for all communication. They might like Aki's model. Or a combination of methods could be adopted.

If there is an idea, a model, a plan, a suggestion, a petition, an initiative they are all the same action with different words. The key is to get the people knowledgeable of it so they may choose to promote it. Writeup in the local paper, meetings, get people discussing it. Finally you have the support to “vote on it”. This comes from “bottom up”. This is grassroots people developing their own world. This is “DD”.

So let us post all DD ideas and links. Let the people choose. Here is a new one [to me].

http://www.govloop.com/

The present WDDM has Forum where we can plan, support and find ways to expand DD.

WDDM could consider another way of configuration. Instead of a boss or leader or chairperson we could have an administrator. The job of the administrator would be to implement the initiatives which have been approved by the members. This is basically what Mirek has been doing, however we have not made it “official” so it could be written as administrative policy of WDDM. Is there any interest in doing this?

Bruce Eggum
Gresham Wisconsin, USA

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:40 PM, <Antonio Rossin> wrote:

Hi,

I insert some comments here and there

On 08/08/2010 14:24, Lata Gouveia wrote:

Antonio,

I agree.

I joined WDDM in 2007 and have not seen any progress.

My initial thoughts, which I shared only to get knocked back, prevail.

I always found that WDDM was a rather clicky, nerdy and, as you say, elitist collection of intellectuals. I include myself in this.

More importantly, I always felt it lacked mass appeal. It looks complicated, it looks ugly, and it bases itself on the very type of language and protocol that it proposes to break away from. Perhaps the desire to be taken seriously, to be seen as being a credible organization is what causes this.

Indeed.  This paradox is IMHO an intrinsic characteristic of human language.
To resolve this paradox my idea has been, since 1994, that "the effectiveness of communication is a function of the message (language) receiver".
That is, communicating DD is hard a job, fated to fall into paradox, if the listener does not have the mental tools to understand democracy in advance. If the listeners do not have these tools, and their brains is shaped in the "obey the authority only" modality, any DD message is a dictat to them, which they take as a contradiction to their style of life: so they usually reject it

This is not a matter of opinion, because even someone like me, who is desperately interested in Direct Democracy and pretty pro-active about it... cannot be bothered with WDDM any more. It displays all the chronic red tape and bureaucracy that characterize representative democracy. If you disagree, please explain why it is that in a World of nearly 7 Billion people, only about one hundred joined the “World”... whatever we call ourselves. Is it that people are not interested in the concept? No. It's simply down to the fact that we are behaving like old fashioned politicians who believe, deep down, that the common folk couldn't possibly understand the levels of conceptual complexity that we are dealing with here. Even I don't have the patience to read all the boring stuff. It's true. And most people are worse than me. If you don't like them, what the hell are you doing trying to create Direct Democracy?

That said, there are a few paradoxes about Direct Democracy that will be hard to solve. Firstly, I believe that Direct Democracy should be about a leaderless society where the artificial selection factor (instead of greed or compliance) should be self-emancipation through participation, initiative and information. However, it is true that it takes someone to inspire and get it started, the general population are not going to, all of a sudden, stop watching football and decide “hang on... lets create a Direct Democracy”.

IMHO, any organization does unavoidably require an organizer, to wit, a leader. Here, the problem is not that of installing onto people a leaderless society, but that of installing into people the ability of questioning the social authority, to wit, the leader, and the mind autonomy allowing them to keep the latter under genuine control.

I did not write just to be mean or destructive. I do have some constructive remarks to make. Basically, when I created Citizen Mundi (twice), I was ignored and mocked by fellow members of WDDM because what I was doing wasn't serious, it was a game and you are all far too busy for games... as most people are for yours. But what I was hinting at is that in order to get a mass movement behind you that does not rely on some leadership factor, like some Obamamania, you need to make it accessible, appealing and, to a certain extent, addictive to the general public.

The success of Google above all other search engines is due to the fact that they have always presented a white screen with a search box in the middle of it. Simple, no distractions, no need for an instruction manual. It sounds simple but it killed competitors. Same thing with Facebook, visa vis other social networking sites.

User friendliness is the road to Direct Democracy. If you are going to ask something of people, which you must in DD (responsibility, regular voting, initiative, etc.) you must make it feel like it was their choice because they enjoy it. You must make it enjoyable.

See above.   the targeted listener must have the mental tools to understand democracy in advance.  That is a matter of basic education.

Direct Democracy is no different from Coca Cola. You have to sell it if you want people to adopt it. And you have to sell it like a leisure item, not like some additional civic duty, some homework that people feel coerced into. People spend hours online, playing stupid reward-less games like “Mafia Wars”. How hard can it be to take that energy and time and turn it into something truly effective and rewarding. Like in Judo, we must take the enemy's strength and direct it into its own defeat.

I have learned this from Citizen Mundi which failed twice because it is still too boring and it's too labour intensive for me. I am still looking for programmers and Website designers to create better versions of it. It might take 20 versions... but there is progress. You can keep pontificating over the finest conceptual issues of democratic theory amongst ourselves.

I am looking for volunteers to participate in the next trial. Contact me if you are interested.

Lata Gouveia

Your endeavour looks nice - but unfortunately, my time is short (and my informatic ability as well)

Wishing you success,

antonio

antonio

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From: Antonio Rossin <rossin(at)tin.it>
To: cicdd(at)yahoogroups.com; wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Sent: Sun, 8 August, 2010 8:08:52
Subject: [WDDM] Re: [cicdd] CO-CREATING A BETTER WORLD

Dear George, and DD friends

how strange.  Ten years have passed since 2000, at Athens-Delphi, when we started speaking about a Constitution of Direct Democracy, and nothing has changed.

Open your eyes.  That of a DD Constitution is a time-wasting blind alley.  Direct Democracy is not a matter of dropping constitutions and such DD charters top-down.  It is a matter of implementing political practices from grassroots bottom-up, according with the local territory needs and policies: all of which cannot be mummified into the rigidity of an elitarian, necessarily un-democratic, constitutional Act.


Take care,

antonio









Il 08/08/2010 02:32, ΔΙΚΗΓΟΡΙΚΟ ΓΡΑΦΕΙΟ Γ. Λ. ΚΟΚΚΑ & ΣΥΝΕΡΓΑΤΩΝ ha scritto:

 

Dear  DD  supporters  participating  in CICDD and WDDM,

I am  in San Fransisco  attending the Global  Forum  on  Direct Democracy that  has great sucess and  participation, although  it  mainly limits  Direct Democracy to  Initiative  and  Referendum  issues,  ignoring  the  rest  of  alternative  Institutions  that  may occur  in  a direct  democratic  society , that  we  can  analyze  continuing  this  process in   Athens, Greece ( September 15 – International  Day  of  Democracy- until  September 19, 2010-deadline  for  participations  August  31).

I   wish  TO  INFORM  YOU  THAT  I  am speaking next  Tuesday at 12:30,  participating in a panel discussing about  the  creation  of Constitutions of Direct  DEMOCRACY. 

            I  WOULD  APPRECIATE MUCH  IF YOU COULD  WRITE  ME  any  comments  that  you  would  like  to  be  announced  about contemporary worldwide Direct  Democracy  and  the  chances  that  you  think existing  for  its  implementation  and  for  a  new  hope  for  the  world!.

Best regards 

George L. Kokkas

N.G.O Forum for Citizens’ Democracy

Ippokratous str. 42 – GR-10680 Athens

Greece

Tel.: +30 2103648300 - Fax: +30 2103610882

geoko@otenet. gr

www.dimopolis. gr

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