Re: [WDDM] Response to Hamid Mohseni

["Jiri Polak" <jiri.polak(at)swipnet.se>]

Dear all,
both the term Democracy and Direct Democracy are  used by various people in
different senses. We should put forward a clear and simple definition
containig  the necessary attributes of each truly democratic system. Any
system lacking one or more of these attributes should not be called
Democracy. What these attributes are will be one of the topics of the Athens
meeting. Obviously, various politicians have used and are using (or abusing)
the word Democracy by filling it with false contents to serve their
manipulative purposes. We should not participate in this foul play. To begin
with, we should refuse to call Democracy any system based on a party
political power monopoly. Parliamentarism is not democracy. And more.
Sincerely                 Jiri Polak
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Powell" <autoinfo(at)acenet.co.za>
To: <wddm@world-wide-democracy.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:04 AM
Subject: RE: [WDDM] Response to Hamid Mohseni


> Hi All,
>
> The definition should be of the concept of DIRECT DEMOCRACY. "Democracy"
> was
> used by dictators and the apartheid regime of South Africa.
>
> My definition of Direct Democracy is where the voters are in control of
> the
> politicians
>
> Politicians are the employees of the voters. Voters decide who gets
> employed
> and voters pay the salary
>
> Everything should grow from this
>
> Regards
>
> Jim Powell
>
> -----Original Message-----
>  From: Jiri Polak
> Sent: 22 Sep 2009 03:03 PM
> To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
> Subject: Re: [WDDM] Response to Hamid Mohseni
>
> Dear all,
> I believe that most people agree that it is necessary to  put forward a
> definition of the concept of DEMOCRACY most, if not all, people will
> approve
>
> and accept. In Athens 3.-4. October, at the second DDEV meeting, we will
> try
>
> to reach such an agreement. Anybody willing to participate at this
> discussion would be welcome. It is still time to contact the organizer,
> George Kokkas, geoko(at)otenet.gr if some of you would decide to go to
> Athens -
>
> the cradle of democracy and of the Western civilisation in general. A
> report
>
> from the meeting will be published in the usual channels.
> Sincerely,                           Jiri Polak
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fred Gohlke" <fredgohlke(at)verizon.net>
> To: <wddm@world-wide-democracy.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:50 PM
> Subject: [WDDM] Response to Hamid Mohseni
>
>
> > Good Morning, Hamid
> >
> > re: "We should not forget that it is the present corrupt
> >      democracies and diktator societies which gives enough
> >      economicall and politicall power to few individuals and in
> >      this way makes it possible for them to manipulate and
> >      decieve peoiple by propaganda and other means."
> >
> > I agree with you, but I would point out that it is even more important to
> > understand how and why the democracies deteriorated to their present
> > state.  If we don't understand how it happened, we can't prevent a
> > recurrence.
> >
> > The people are, indeed, manipulated and deceived.  The work of B. F.
> > Skinner and the behavioral scientists lets our leaders (political and
> > commercial) milk us like cows ... and the growth of mass communications
> > has made their efforts inescapable.  These people are very good at what
> > they do, and their success is the strongest argument against 'direct
> > democracy'.
> >
> > If we are to defeat deception and manipulation we must find people who
> > are
>
> > superior to the deceivers and manipulators.  We have such people among
> > us.
>
> > What we lack is a means of finding them and raising them to positions of
> > leadership.
> >
> >
> > re: "In proper functioning democracies it would be more difficult
> >      for few people to manipulate others for their own interest
> >      because the power is shared between bigge number of
> >      individuals."
> >
> > Of course, but what ... exactly ... is a 'proper functioning democracy'.
> > How is it organized?  How does it work?
> >
> > It is easy to say the people must make all the decisions.  It is not as
> > easy to say how they should do so.  Will you allow public officials? How
> > will they be selected?  What will be their role?
> >
> > Failure to consider these questions is what causes the huge gap between
> > the theory of democracy and its actual practice.  It is precisely because
> > we have failed to consider these questions and provide sensible answers
> > for them that 'politicians' have been able to take control of our
> > governments.
> >
> > Fred Gohlke