RE: [WDDM] Hello as a new member.

["David Parker" <davefparker(at)shaw.ca>]

I agree with Hayek's dethronement of politics and I like what you say. A common thread in many forums seems to be preservation of political parties, government and governors, police/policy enforcement officers and the rest of the authoritarian apparatchik. Central banks spending money into the economy through military industrial complex contracts and taxation on the added interest of the fiat national debt/sin. Government/God, Banks and Corporations are one and the same. They are just different parts of the same fairy tale. Accumulate large amounts of dead trees in the form of paper notes and piles of smelted mountains in the shape of coins and you will die a success. Hoard, don't share, tithe if you want to assuage the feelings of guilt. Perhaps Prozac will help you ignore the voices of conscience in your head.

Lata pointed out some good truisms in that the human person seeks to be right. I suppose this is another attempt by me to be right when I say that if we all died from a nuclear holocaust tomorrow caused by corrupt governments that nature would not spontaneously create another government to take it's place. With no one to beLIEve in it it no longer exists. Bees display a Hierarchal Social Management Structure. Are we no better than ants or bees? The Sun doesn't have an accounts department that bills us monthly. Why do we demand that we install persons/persona above us to live off our labors while dictating where we work, what we work at, what we earn and how much we have to pay to them?

Why have we thrown off creative evolution for government devolution. Are we so brainwashed as to believe the dystopian futures offered to us on the tell lie vision like Blade Runner, 1984, Logan's Run and The Island. Do we beLIEve that war is inevitable, a whole lot of people are going to have to die, my politician is the wisest and has the best plan and we all have God on our side? James Bond is pure fiction, the MI5/CIA are benevolent observers, assassinations occur stochastically, drugs smuggle themselves and billions of dollars launder themselves through Vatican banks magically. Death squads and false flag operations are figments of our imaginations, 2+2=5, go back to bed, your government is in control.

We keep lying to ourselves like some bourgeois dream. We say we can fix it, repair it, change it from within, write new forms, pass new laws, create more bureaucracy, hire more policy enforcement officers, cut back education, increase the military budget, capture new land and resources, switch parties, put a new leader in place and everything will be just fine. Do these two mental exercises. Join the mafia and convert them to the march of dimes. Join a Christian church and convert them to Islam. You can't change anyone. People have to change themselves. When we stop being right we see reality. We can stop buying the knowledge on offer from parents, peers, professors and public media.

If you can't get people to participate they have no interest at all. In the average life of a citizene he may spend as much as 5 minutes considering the wonders of creation, he may put a few more minutes into politics. He spends 8 years staring at the tell lie vision. If this doesn't change I say we are doomed. Be like a boy scout and be prepared but don't count on Jesus to appear out of thin air and save you. He's just another of the fairy tales on offer from the state.

The State's motto, "We will lead every revolution against us" It may be a bit of a stretch to say that every dissenting voice is but another limited hang out but most of the popular ones certainly exhibit those traits. Publish or perish, put out and promote academics that support the elite structure.They know how easy it is to attract people with a charismatic leader. Look at Cicero and Cato. Corrupt wealthy slave owners writing to support their class. People have been programmed from birth to be followers and beLIEvers. Just look at the number of climate change tax the persons groups, class war support the elites groups, anti war support the troop groups and the list goes on

I was hoping to find something different and have heard some good comments but preserving the status quo seems to be paramount for some. Fear of rocking the boat or duplicity in keeping the trim tabs pointing the ship in a desired direction I cannot say. I've jumped ship and am just watching from what I hope is a safe distance now.

As an aside and not that anyone really cares but I hear Obama holds stock in the Baxter Fear Flu and plans to make a killing this fall, pardon the pun, with forced vaccinations. I also hear Wal Mart or as I like to call them Death Mart has offered it's stores as places to administer the vaccines. Kind of reminds me of IBM and it's benevolent offer to tattoo and tag everyone for the Nazi Slave camps. Is this the stage being set for FEMA, another government fiction, to enslave all the out of work citizens that refuse shots or catch it from those that do take the poison?

When the fear flu season hits I say breathe deep it goes away quicker. Keep eating dead flesh and cooking the life out of the vegetables, we wouldn't want to get essential acids and enzymes into our systems. Those might actually prolong life in this hell on earth. Don't go out and get any sunshine, get your vitamin D in milk since casein causes cancer. If cancer is striking 1 in 2 people why aren't the wealthy and elites dying as well? Do you think they live on Burger King? Some people will buy anything. My own friends and family turned me away and chose the chemical therapy. You can't save the walking dead and you can't change a persons mind. I now visit them in a graveyard.

I've been watching these cycles over the past 50 years but things are different now. It seems that the events are coming more frequently and faster in more and more places. This is the regimes hail Mary end game gambit coming along soon. It won't be just fear flu, financial calamity, food shortages, civil unrest, climate changes, CIA suitcase nukes and all out war in Central Asia, Africa, South America and the Middle East but those will be some of the major prongs of the coming problems, reaction (save us oh benevolent ones) solution (Police state, one world currency, religion and dictator under the guise of a council). If you think we have any say in this tell me who do I call, write, email to oppose it? There will be no more communication and free flowing of information after operation cable splice. It will be like a new inquisition of Papal Infallibility, for our own good of course.

Enjoy your next shopping experience, move along, nothing to see here, everything is under control, please stay tuned to the tell lie vision for further New World Orders

http://members.shaw.ca/davefparker/
illuminati-news.com/Articles/65.html

Cheers. Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Luca Zampetti [luca_zampetti(at)yahoo.it]
Sent: August 12, 2009 5:49 AM
To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Hello as a new member.

Sorry I am at work, I can reply only in flying ... Parteienstaat is over ... regime breakdown imminent ... US is in critical legitimacy crisis ... EU illegittimate system of government ... likely crisis of a Weimarerian type imminent ... alternatives ... dictatorship or MORE democracy ... we are not at the end of history, we were not, we have never been ... we have not seen anything yet ... democracy is the reign of human rights, not of elections ... I recommend warmly the article of the Swiss lawyer Zaccaria Giacometti on this regard ... everything of what CAN come ... against which elitistic "democracy" is fighting since 250 years is in the origins ... was in Thomas Paine ... The Rights of Man ... in Condorcet ... constitutional project with Thomas Paine ... in 1776 nobody could imagine that monarchy could be replaced by "republics" after 1000 years of history ... it happened ... not without blood ... now we are going towards a similar turning point ... the elitistic forces are trying to set up a centralized world government, to put the rotten Parteienstaaten under pharmacological coma ... it will not work ... it might be the only main cause for the 3rd (or 4th, depending on you count) world war ... if there is to be "democracy" after this, it will be Swiss type ... only a "democracy" in which there is no monopoly of fiscal power anymore can be considered legitimate in future ... the residual of monarchy in the modern "democratic" Parteienstaat is fiscal monopoly ... on top of which you have legislative monopoly ... then we might have World Government monopoly ... introduced by a private central world bank probably ... this needs to be avoided ... at any cost ... the next step of growth of the realm of human rights is radical decentralization ... "the dethronement of politics" as FA von Hayek called it ...

LZ

---

Da: Antonio Rossin <rossin(at)tin.it>
A: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Cc: Jud Evans <gevans613(at)aol.com>
Inviato: Mercoledì 12 agosto 2009, 14:29:40
Oggetto: Re: [WDDM] Hello as a new member.

Hi Luca,

I find your analysis very good. Yet, as far as I can understand, it reads that in most of our so-called Democracies the democratic Constitution, having been set up by "We the People", disempowers us citizens from any initiative and control power - especially that of changing the Constitutional Chart in order to make it suitable for any initiative and control power by the people.

In other words, how could we democracy lovers change our democratic Constitution via our democratic rules, since the democratic rules of our constitutional Democracy disallow us from democratically making any such changes?

Quite strangely, too many of us Democracy activists still insist in the timewasting illusion of being themselves able to improve Democracy by changing the Constitutional Chart in office. Very simply, and very naively, they are walking a blind alley.  Let's agree, any improved Democracy will unavoidably install, once improved, an improved thus more suitable Constitutional Chart -  but not the way around!

Maybe, our western democracies are suffering from too much reificationalist attitude in people, which implies that the needed change should be investigated somewhere else than the reification of formal democracy.

To those interested: more at "Democracy Religion Drugs"
( http://evans.experientialism.freewebspace.com/rossin11.htm )


Best regards,  antonio

------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------

Reifications (like biological entozoic infections of the gut) are

proto-socio-neurological enculturations and as useful fictions

are  not necessarily symbiotic with, nor necessarily benignly

adjuvant to the welfare of their unwitting and often naive hosts.

Jud Evans.

Freedom in humans consists of the ability to liberate oneself

from the tyranny of reificationalist imprinting.

--------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------

Luca Zampetti ha scritto:

The proportional voting system in Switzerland works because of the special social conditions there ("Konkordanzdemokratie"), in many other places this system produces strong "rent seeking" effects (Italy).

There is no single instrument for controlling the "rent seeking" influence of special interest groups and of political parties in "Parteienstaat" models of government, these phenomena can (and must) be controlled with many instruments.

The direct and/or indirect control of special interests and of parties can be controlled partially with the return to the Athenian purely stochastic (s)election for a majority of seats (reserving let´s say 51% of them for stochastic (s)election. Every voting system can be manipulated and has both advantages and disadvantages. The point is that no voting system is chosen or designed explicitely for controlling politics and politicians, but for empowering them.

Equally important is: increase the number of direct (s)elective positions in the judiciary and in the executive/administrative branches.

Equally important are additional instruments for voting away politicians and administrators: recall elections, popular veto elections.

The cost of democracy must be in a relation to its productivity. The overall goal must be to use direct democracy instruments to guarantee as much as possible the social productivity of political activities. When the cost is higher than productivity, like in the Parteienstaat, the political institutions break down by themselves anyway in the long run. The question is with what to replace them.

What is required is a general concept for re-engineering democracy so that it becomes compatible with a new-old requirement, i.e. its "controllability", which is related to accountability, but only partially. Our concept of democracy is incomplete: it was successful with delegation, but very miserable with control. It lacks practically all efficient instruments of political and fiscal control. The effects are devastating: we have states that have more powers than totalitarian regimes and we cannot control them efficiently anymore.

There are some powers that definitely need to be withdrawn from legislative institutions, like the budgeting rights, which parliaments arrogated from the kings in many hundreds of years.

Financial referenda should become the standard budgeting procedure.

The budgeting institutions should not be parliaments anymore, but courts of accounts with popularly elected judges and jurors.

Another power that should be withdrawn is the constitution making and revision power, it is definitely a separate power from the legislative, executive and judiciary and it should be institutionalized in separated PERMANENT constitutional assemblies of directly (s)elected representatives (small bodies at regional, national and supranational level).

Constitution making and revision should be out of the hands of professional politicians.

Constitutional initiative, total and partial, should be reserved to the people with proper referendary procedures "organized" under the permanent constitutional assemblies.

And so on ...

Luca Zampetti

(snip)