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02009: Re: Fw: Re: [WDDM] I spit in your face

From: "M. Kolar" <wddm(at)mkolar.org>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 01:43:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [WDDM] I spit in your face

Hi Dan (and all the newcomers, and everybody else, too)!

First, this is definitely no Neo-Nazi group!!!
You are here relatively new.. Have you read some of the history of
WDDM? There is plenty of info on the site, in the archive
(http://www.world-wide-democracy.net/archive/), in the wiki
(http://www.world-wide-democracy.net/Wiki/ - if you are willing to spend
some time to dig through the wiki), on what we've tried in the past.
This recent phase of WDDM over which I have sort of reluctantly sort
of presided as the webmaster (after long persuasion by George Sagi, one
of the original founding members, who has left us since then mainly
because of his health) I have started in 2005 as an attempt in
self-organization, as an experiment whether people who believe in DD can
organize themselves as a group of equals without somebody giving them an
initial complete set of rules how to operate. It was apparently not very
successful, and so we still have only those trivial rules that I
described in my previous posts. It also explains why all the garbage in
the mailing list.
I definitely share your concerns "All it takes is one piece of
garbage like this to get the whole group labelled as some skinhead,
Neo-Nazi, Racist, Anti-Semite, KKK type group. It discredits anything we
would attempt to accomplish." This is also what I am afraid of. I am
happy about your post. Maybe it will provoke members to think again more
seriously about better organizational rules, especially membership rules.
I am considering my personal options, but first I guess I should
finish reading all previous year's e-mail to have a complete picture of
what was going on recently. I hoped that people on this list, i.e.,
those who prefer interact over e-mail in the discussion-only mode rather
then on the website, are able to self-police themselves, respect each
other ... But it doesn't seem so again! Sometime it seems to me that
people here want to prove by their behaviour that DD is not possible.
An extreme option would be to shut down everything, and walk away
from it, but I will probably not do it (yet) - too much effort already
put into it the past.
Or just shut down this mailing list - before digging out all the
usefull past contributions and repost them somewhere?
Ideally, after all the previous experience, I would prefer/suggest
to abandon a separate mailing list like this, and switch to an web-based
system (Drupal, Kuro5hin) where a contribution is posted for the world
to see it only if it gets enough support from enough other members, is
discarded if it gets enough negative ratings. That would be best
collective self-policing/self-organization.
But it would not eliminate the possibility that you would have to read
offensive contributions from other members - in order to be able to rate
them. But maybe one could set it so that too many negative ratings in a
certain period of a member could trigger an automatic discarding of all
their contributions for awhile?
It would require some effort/time to switch to such a system. Would you
use it???
Is there somebody else (especially younger, with a lot of energy
left), who would want to take over the administration of this site, and
do some desirable changes better and faster than me)? I'll be happy to
pass my webmastering to somebody else.
I hope that you will be thinking about all this, and make some
suggestions.
In the meantime, do you want this list to be moderated??? Please,
use for your answer the voting I have just created for this purpose,
called "Should the WDDM mailing list be temporarily moderated?" here;
http://www.world-wide-democracy.net/vote/ (you have to be logged in to
vote, and if you forgot your password, you can get a new (temporary) one
by mail if you got this, see here how:
http://www.world-wide-democracy.net/forum/read.php?6,100,100#msg-100
Are 4 days enough to complete this vote?

Mirek

P.S. Fred has very recently
(http://www.world-wide-democracy.net/forum/read.php?6,944,944#msg-944)
brought to our attention this new voting system:
http://zelea.com/project/votorola/d/theory.xht
Have a look. I am not yet sure it could help us to go forward better if
we implemented this.


Dan Smith wrote:

I was under the impression this group was dedicated to promoting
direct Democracy not hatred of people for ethnic or religious
persuasion.

I am not Jewish, I am not Left or Right wing, unless you follow the US
Homeland security doctrine. If anything I am more of a Libertarian.

I find the Neo-Nazi bull rather offensive, counter productive and
having no place in any group I am a member. I believe in direct
Democracy, that it's time has come. That an end of representive
Democracy is coming soon and that this is a good thing.

So is this some sort of cover for a Neo-Nazi group? If so why is
garbage like this allowed on this list? All it takes is one piece of
garbage like this to get the whole group labeled as some skinhead,
Neo-Nazi, Racist, Anti-Semite, KKK type group. It discredits anything
we would attempt to accomplish. I've heard it all before. Had many
Neo-Nazis attempt to recruit me over the years. The Jews are not what
is wrong with the world. They are people some good some bad.

Drac


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