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01910: Re: [WDDM] Re:[WDDM] Non direct-democracy items

From: "Bruce Eggum" <bruce.eggum(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 02:44:13 -0500
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Re:[WDDM] Non direct-democracy items

I suggest a new "look" at our OLD Aim.

DD – Direct Democracy is the people in charge with total control of their government. [my definition] The following models provide a beginning to that goal. Each has a bit of useful refinement.
 
Georges "Shadow Parliament" in my opinion is precisely what WDDM has been advocating since it's beginning. We have different words, but the function is basically the same. I enclose my view with [brackets]
 

[WDDM (old aim) began with Swiss I&BR model to distribute the information about the Swiss I&BR all over the world. Individuals would establish "Assembly's" or groups in their jurisdiction, maintaining membership with WDDM. This would establish a form of World Assembly at WDDM where all could come together bringing their accepted Initiatives, to share [debate, deliberate]and determine which agreed Initiatives to submit to the World for Binding Referendum. Each jurisdiction [Local Assembly] would conduct their own referendum on these World Initiatives and report back to WDDM for a World Tally.]

 
 
Georges says:
1. The Group must count enough members. 1% of the voting
population seems to be a minimum, but of course 
it is just a guess. Only practice will tell.
 
[WDDM first is trying to recruit people from all over the world, asking them to establish I&BR in their own jurisdiction. They in turn invite more local people and establish a local "Assembly" or "Shadow Parliament". Yes 1% or perhaps ½ % of voters to begin. To many would limit the initiatives and lack of participation would kill it. This % can of course be changed with Initiative as needed.]

Georges continues:

2.Establish a logistic 3 Functions support. "3F" (I&D&R) E-Platform: [Swiss Initiative, obvious deliberation, Binding Referendum.]

1.Initative (supporting individual proposals)

2.Debate (consensus building)

3.Resolution (upon a consensus threshold; no snapshot

  vote)[Binding Referendum]



Georges continues:

3.Propound Sincerity, which appears to be the

critical condition of DD. A very limited experience

seems to point to "self applicable attitude".


[This is the decision making process. It has to do with values and could require much deliberation. Of course it may include wrong decisions which can be "re-done".]


Georges continues:

An example:

A small forum discussed pollution and found out rightly

or wrongly that the worst pollution source is the

factory breeding of animals. Besides pollution it

involves unacceptable suffering of animals and mental

corruption of attendants who become potential sadistic

Auschwitz guards. The group condemned eating meat. Not

as a theoretical principle, but as a self applying

decision and all members stopped eating meat.

Another very limited and positive experience consisted

in stages in Kibbutzim, confronting fellows with the

sincerity of the unique ever realized genuine DD.


Bruce remarks; so onward together, making Assembly, I&BR, Shadow Parliament, (you name it. The beginning seems to be recruitment of individuals within a jurisdiction, be it local, county, state, nation-country joined as a group.


Another post will discuss our "discussion differences".




On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 2:20 AM, <Ron White> wrote:
Spot on there David!  'Truthers or liars?' ....George could easily find an audience with any number of web sites, why is he insistant on troubling WDDM? He is smart and should find constuctive membership with WDDM...but until he does I think George is just a smuggled in AIPAC mole!
Ron White


--- On Fri, 9/5/08, David Parker <davefparker(at)shaw.ca> wrote:
From: David Parker
Subject: RE: [WDDM] Re:[WDDM] Non direct-democracy items
To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Date: Friday, September 5, 2008, 3:55 PM


Maybe this is part of the problem "nor do (I) care about you" when people stop caring about their follow man they stop listening. They begin with ad hominem attacks and broad accusations. As to the question, "Complete Enough?" No. How can direct democracy even get started let alone survive is there is no input and no follow up questions are allowed?

"I commented (on) your post which IMO dumped a heap of
malignant crap"
Describe the malignant crap. I thought my ideas and suggestions were, if not innovative, at least worthy of consideration. What method do you see to administer a global direct democracy? Were you hoping to secure the position of King of the dd?

Your comments seem clipped and strained. I'm assuming that English is not your first language so I will allow for the poor grammar so far, none of us are perfect.

You see the need for a video format to follow up on discussions like this? I could look into you eyes and listen to your voice and get a better feeling of your empathy or enmity. This turn based system of attack and defend isn't working. Your attacks are weak and my defense is obvious. It's probably causing you undue stress and discomfort. Wouldn't you feel better if you could just get it all off your chest in one long rambling rant?


http://members.shaw.ca/davefparker/

Cheers. Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Georges Metanomski [zgmet(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: September 5, 2008 2:19 PM
To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Subject: RE: [WDDM] Re:[WDDM] Non direct-democracy items



--- On Fri, 9/5/08, David Parker <davefparker(at)shaw.ca> wrote:
From: David Parker
Subject: RE: [WDDM] Re:[WDDM] Non direct-democracy items
To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Date: Friday, September 5, 2008, 9:33 PM

Is that comment directed at me? Speak in complete sentences please.

No, I do not write ad personam, nor do care about you.
I commented your post which IMO dumped a heap of
malignant crap on this list in wake of another one by
some Ron White. Complete enough?

Georges.


http://members.shaw.ca/davefparker/

Cheers. Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Georges Metanomski [zgmet(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: September 5, 2008 9:58 AM
To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Subject: RE: [WDDM] Re:[WDDM] Non direct-democracy items

Transferring WDDM to a dump of off topic,  loony, venomous
crap continues.  Real tsunami of malignant filth.
Georges.


--- On Fri, 9/5/08, David Parker <davefparker(at)shaw.ca> wrote:
From: David Parker
Subject: RE: [WDDM] Re:[WDDM] Non direct-democracy items
To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Date: Friday, September 5, 2008, 5:05 PM

We need a Direct Democratic forum to start working on a world government by the people for the people. A website the population can login to with a secure password that has every possible type of community forums and a pin for voting legal and governmental issues to lodge complaints and to share our ideas with each other. Setup something like a combination radio, TV, Video on demand, youtube, myspace, limewire, wiki, database, webcam, chat room, net meeting, cspan, mIRC type of resource. Meeting boards, Job boards, social dating, open source software, educational information and technical advice.

An example would be someone proposes an initiative in a video like on youtube, end Israeli occupation, apartheid and ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Over the course of a month people review, praise, critique, rebut, rebuke and reprimand the post voting yay or nay. At the end of the month the votes/views tally is done and if it meets a threshold it advances to the next level or is rejected.

If it's rejected they can take the advice from people's posts and refine or revamp it and repost after a waiting period. If it passes it gets more exposure and more criticism in a final voting stage. All fully transparent and open to every person. Some won't care, some won't participate and some won't even have access to start. There will be criminal elements trying to subvert the system for their own ends but the people of good conscience will be the check and balance, not some puppetdent with the final say.

Eventually the leaders of the past will become nothing more than administrators of the future. They have no power to change anything on their own except through the global forums. They only implement the changes of the people.

Some examples of votes never put before the people: Nuclear dismantling and disarmament. Mass media monopoly and manipulation of global conscience. Wars and military build-up, shovels instead of guns. Organized Religious Intolerance, apartheid, racial and ethnic cleansing. Austrian economics, free money and an end to private Banksters ruling the planet through greed.

Am I just dreaming or is there any chance for the globe to get together on our own or will we always turn to big brother for help? Will we forever demand government to give us this or that? Will we continue to stand outside yelling at the system to change from within?

Only an epsilon semi-moron still believes there is any honesty left in the system. The policies are all in place. The cartels: UN Globalists and all the Puppetdents, Media Industrial Complex, International Banksters, Secret Service Community, Military Industrial Complex, Medical Chemical Industrial Complex, Energy Cartel, Charitable Tax Exempt Education NGO Foundations, Organized Religious Intolerance Indoctrination Complex, set and control all facets of our lives.

Does anyone think Al Gore is fighting for us? Does anyone think Newton was anything other than a thief and plagiarist? Does anyone think the UN volunteer baby rapers care? Does anyone believe oil will last past the end of this century? Does anyone believe 911 was anything other than a government false flag to promote a war on terror and strip the planet of all right to protest?

Is this just a forum for gatekeepers, controlled opposition, manufactured dissent? I get more heated discussions and a wider range of information from a youtube post than I do here, in general. Why are people not harnessing the potential of video hosting for direct democracy? People need a voice and an outlet, public demonstrations are not working. The police state is dispersing those and arresting participants.

Truthers versus Liars, which side are you on?




http://members.shaw.ca/davefparker/

Cheers. Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Vijayaraghavan Padmanabhan [vijayaraghavan.p(at)rediffmail.com]
Sent: September 5, 2008 4:55 AM
To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Subject: [WDDM] Re:[WDDM] Non direct-democracy items

One thing that is clear after watching WDDM for nearly a year and a half is that it lacks an Administrator to take policy decisions. It is a good discussion forum with a sprinkling of sarcasm and comedy going with it. Discussion goes round in circles with people rooted in their respective points of view, unaware that all are trying to make the same point from different perspectives. Mirek, I believe, is content with being the web master. Mark having contributed the charter keeps a distance from all discussions. I have not seen Jiri Polak or George Kokkas, who I believe are among the founders, taking part in the discussions. There is nobody who can accommodate the various points of view and yet take forward the WDDM to meaningful action at the global level by utilising the global reach of the internet.

PVR






--
Bruce Eggum
Gresham Wisconsin, USA
http://www.doinggovernment.com/
Check out my Blog too
http://bruceeggum.blogster.com/
http://usinitiative.com

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