Re: [WDDM] Phoenix Project - last installment

[wddm(at)mkolar.org]

This was of course supposed to go to the whole list:

    Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:08:59 -0400
    From: wddm(at)mkolar.org
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Phoenix
Project
      To: Democracy By The People <democracybythepeople(at)gmail.com>

     Hi Matt,

      I am back in Canada, and this is my last installment (for now) of
my "impressions" from Ecuador:

      First a correction: Ecuador actually had an indegenous government
minister since 2003, when a prominent indegenous female leader Nina
Pacari was elected as the Minister of Foreign Affairs (current
governement has seven women in a 17-member cabinet).
     Ecuador had a long history of grassroot struggle for democratic
participation starting already about 60 years after the Spanish conquest in
1534, but those earlier attempts were usually bloodily suppressed. All
adults got voting rights only in 1978 (before that the illiterate
persons could not vote). In spite of the Land Reform of 1964 (that
made only that late illegal the last remnants of serfdom and bondage
of peons to landowners), there are still large haciendas in the
coastal regions (that use industrial methods to produce export crops
to the detriment of the environment), and a large number of landless
people in the countryside. I could see a huge difference in the
standard of living of the poor agricultural workers in the coastal
region and for example of the well-to-do professionals of the northern
new parts of Quito with their western style malls and all the modern
electronic gadgets. It would still require a huge effort to decrease
these differences to something more reasonable.

     I have not got into the Amazon jungle area of Ecuador east
of the Andes, from where one hears about still different problems
(crude oil extraction effecting the fragile environment, illegal
logging, illegal clearing of land for agriculture; see a note on the Yasuni
Project below).

     Back to the new constitution: the official site is here:
http://www.asambleaconstituyente.gov.ec/
(your article by assambleista
Eduardo Zambrano is actually taken from the same site). All the so far
approved parts of the new constitution can be accessed from this page:
http://asambleaconstituyente.gov.ec/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5838&Itemid=102
(it's all in Spanish, when the Constitution is finished, I'll have it
translated into English, if no other sources would be available; the
only info in English I found so far is this short Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecuadorian_Constituent_Assembly_referendum,_2007).
     I've checked so far in some detail only the section "Organización
social y participatión en democracia". It seems that this part does
not prescribe any particular form or composition of the Citizens
Councils, but it allows for whatever individual and collective
democratic mechanisms (representative, direct and communal) of
participation that the citizens of different communities find suitable
for them (if I understand the text properly).
     Chapter IV of this Section is called "How to exercise Direct
Democracy". It allows among others popular initiatives at all levels
of government. Less important initiatives require only 0.25% of
initial signatures of registered voters to go ahead! Changes of
constitution, 1% of signatures.
     Then there is an intitution of convening a "consulta popular"
-
something like "Consulting council of citizens"? It can be convened
by
the President of the republic, governments of various levels, or by
citizens' initiatives. To convene such "consulta popular" by
citizens
on the national level, 5% of signatures are necessary, and 10% for the
local level.
     To recall a representative, 10% of signatures are needed, to recall
the President, 15%.
     To register a political party or movement, 1.5% of signatures of
registered voters in the respective jurisdiction have to be presented.

     ----

     Impressions from my last day in Quito (it was actually already a 
week ago):

     My Ecuardorian friend was actually the one least enthusiatic about
the new constitution (and too busy, I just caught him for a while
between several meetings that day). Not much enthusiastic because for
him personally the most important is the nature of the financial
system (and he is an expert on creating alternative, interest-free,
local economies, and willing to share his experience with others). He
believes that even with the best of constitutions, if the government
would not be willing to also change the national financial system (get
rid of interest that encourages exponential growth and waste), nothing much
will change, and the huge material differences between the various
groups of Ecuadorians will continue.
     He cleared one misunderstanding of mine: there are no provincial
Constitutional Assemblies. There are just representatives of various
provinces sent into a single national C.A. (as well as representatives
of various political parties).

     Then I took a taxi downtown because not much time was left. The one
that stoped for me was a very old Soviet-area Russian-made Lada car
with an old
driver. I tried to find something about the constitution process from
him. He didn't care much! He said that the Constitutional Assembly
would end in a months, and for him, and other poor people like him it
would not bring any change.  The price of gasoline (which is by the
way four times cheaper than
here in Canada!) and of other basic goods will remain the same. He
apparently didn't like president Correa, he said he was no good at all and
was against the people (contra el pueblo). When I tried to remind him
that many other (most?) Ecuadorians apparently like him, he admitted
that. But claimed that the president of the C.A. is absolutely bad,
even much worse than Correa. He told me then that he was sick because
the taxi-driver job is no good as he
was stabed by a passenger some time in the past, and now needs a
medicine costing $20 (I was not able to find out how often he needs
this $20), which no health system pays for him, and so that he drives
his old taxi only when he needs to earn those $20.

     As if to support his point, we met a rather big and noisy demonstration
of
some workers who also didn't seem to be happy with their lot at all.

     Then is the evening, TV reported a lot about what seemed like a minor
crisis in the Constitutional Assembly. Some members apparently thought
that they need more time, but it's work must be finished in another
month at the latest as was stipulated when C.A. was convened. And they
had a problem what to do. The President of the C.A. even wanted to
resign over this (or maybe somebody required his resignation?).
Apparently they settled it somehow and nobody resigned in the end, as
I saw on the C.A. site (see above) an article dated around June 26,
claiming that "The president of the Constituent Assembly, Fernando
Cordero, confirmed once again that the Constitution will be ready before
26 of July, as the Statutes approved in the referendum of the 15 of
April of 2007 require."

     -----

     By the way, I mentioned Lada car above. You can see cars from all
over the world in Ecuador, US-made and Japanese-made cars seem to be
in minority. There are many French and Italians cars, and also many
(much newer than the above taxi) Russian-made Ladas and 4x4 Nivas
(e.g., about half of all the taxis in the largest city of Quayaquil of
2 million people - a port city and the industrial and export centre of 
Ecuador,
are Russian Ladas). I also saw one car dealership with new nicely
looking Chinese cars and trucks of all sizes. And even a store with 
tires made in my native Czechia.
(After the Ecuadorian banking system collaps of 1999, Ecuadorians are
said not to put any money in banks at all, instead they invest all their
earnings in new cars and in building/enlarging their houses - both
financed mostly by loans in the hope that if another rampant inflation
will start, the actual value of their installments will go down!)

     One more thing: we were urged by the Ecuadorian participants to
support the Yasuni Projects (e.g., by writing to our respective governments
to help), see:
http://www.sosyasuni.org/en/index.php
and e.g.
http://www.siu.no/magazine/layout/set/print/content/view/full/6892
In it the current Ecuadorian governement pledges to keep forever
underground one large deposit of crude oil in the Amazonian jungle in
a large section of Yasuni National Park with a very fragile ecosystem
where a lot of indegeneous people also live in the so called "voluntary
isolation" (they do not want any contact with the western civilization)
if
they will receive from abroad at least 50% of the income that the 
extraction of this oil would generate. They could use badly all this
money for improving the living standard of their poor people. But they are
willing to forfait one half of this potential income to help reduce CO2
emissions and save a precious ecosystem, if some foreign countries
and/or IMF (e.g., by reducing Ecuador's debt) will come up with at least
the other half. So far at least Germany promised some help:
http://asambleaconstituyente.gov.ec/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14086
(just recently on June 25).
     So here I am passing on this call for help to save Yasuni also
onto all of you.

     All the best greetings,
Mirek



     Quoting Democracy By The People <democracybythepeople(at)gmail.com>:

> Hi Mirek,
>
> Thanks for your reply and I greatly appreciate you sharing your
impressions.
> It sounds like you are having a great experience there...
>
> What you have reported so far sounds very encouraging... Ecuador seems to
be
> entering a very positive phase at last...
>
> I would like to point out that I think that the comments of the
Ecuadorians
> at your meeting regarding Venezuela are true in a certain sense but I
> feel they present an oversimplified representation of the situation in
that
> country.. Participatory democracy in Venezuela is very much a movement
of
> the people... Although it is supported from the pro-chavez government
> elements at the top, the entire process, and Chavez himself would be
nowhere
> without his popular support base. Participatory democracy in Venezuela
is
> able to survive and prosper only with these two forces acting
together...
> the grassroots base and the Chavez government.   The government is
creating
> constitutional and legal structures that is institutionalizing
participatory
> democracy in the hopes that it will not be torn down by outside forces
or
> internal opposition forces from the traditional oligarchy... on the
other
> hand... the people are creating the movement and giving it life from the
> community grassroots level... So these two entities need each other for
this
> 'revolution' to succeed in Venezuela... I believe that without the legal
> structures put in place for participatory democracy by the Chavez
> government, it would be hard to keep the oligarchy and their friends in
> America at bay... That realization is what prompted my question for you
> regarding Ecuador... as to whether the new constitution will include a
> similar formal structure for participatory democracy... because I think
that
> given the volatile political history of Ecuador it is a necessary step
there
> as well to ensure that participatory democracy becomes entrenched and
can
> find it's place within the framework of government as it has in
Venezuela...
>
> Latin America in general has a long history of strong grassroots
political
> movements... but this has traditionally been a politics of the street...
and
> very often a dangerous way to practice participatory democracy... many
> have given their lives in that arena... now the trend in Latin America,
led
> by Venezuela, is to bring the people into government legitimately where
they
> can participate without fear... I think this is desireable change of
events
> and I would like to see the same happen in Ecuador...
>
> That said, it is true what they said that there is a minority of corrupt
> bureaucratic individuals within the ranks of the Chavez government that
are
> slowing progress.. they are well recognized by the grassroots movement
and
> by the left elements of the government as well as Chavez himself.. they
are
> seen as a great risk to the movement, and efforts are being made to
stamp
> out this corruption... the biggest move in this effort is the creation
of
> the PSUV or the united socialist party... this is a further attempt to
> ensure that participatory democracy will survive and thrive in Venezuela
in
> spite of the forces that will do everything in their power to stamp it
> out...
>
> In Ecuador the opposition will surely resort to similar tactics as used
in
> Venezuela as evidenced by your story about scare tactics being employed
in
> the constitutional assembly... It is not private property that is in
danger,
> neither in Ecuador or Venezuela, it is the oligarchy's desire to hold on
to
> the control of resources and the wealth they gain from them...
>
> I invite you to read an article by a member of the constitutional
assembly
> in Ecuador that we posted on La Esquina Caliente today... the author is
a
> strong supporter of participatory democracy and participatory budgeting
> being a part of the constitution... tha article is in spanish I hope you
can
> read it... you will find it here:
>
> http://delaesquinacaliente.blogspot.com/2008/06/ecuador-poder-popular-y-la-nueva.html
>
> maybe it will help you in your quest for more information on the
topic...
>
> Happy and safe travels my friend... I look forward to hearing more from
you
> on your journey...
>
> Abrazos, Matt
> On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 12:23 PM, <wddm(at)mkolar.org>
wrote:
>
>> Hi Matt and all!
>>
>> First, the Phoenix meeting ended a week ago with no final document
>> agreed on. It seems that if there are too many peoples with strong
>> opinions (who all wants to be the leaders) assembled, it is very
>> difficult for them to agree on something. It apparently doesn't
matter
>> whether the "meeting" is condacted on the Interent (such as
we
>> couldn't agree here on anything during the past two years) or in
>> person, even if two most experienced dynamic facilitaros were
>> conducting most of the meetings. On the other hand, it is true that
>> one week is probably not enough for such discussions (native
Americans
>> had no time limits on their deliberations when they wanted to reach
a
>> consensus). We concluded the meeting with that the process will be
>> described on Internet and maybe elsewhere.
>> There should be produced at least one video about it, and one person
>> even things about writing a book about it.
>> In any case it was a very useful meeting (at least I learned a lot
new
>> things).
>>
>> Now to your questions about Ecuador: I do not have all the answers
>> yet. At our meeting there were 3 Ecuadorians who were very
>> enthusiastic about the whole process and the current situation in
>> Ecuador. They claimed that the new progressive goverment managed to
>> exchange the whole public servie bureaucracy, who solodly support
the
>> new government, and the army is also on its side. They said that
>> unlike in Venezuala, in Ecudaro the participatory democracy is being
>> built genuinely from the grasroot level, while in Venezuela is it
the
>> work of a single person, president Chavez who tries to create it
from
>> the top against the resistance of the old buraucracy which mostly
>> remained in place.
>>
>> I am now travelling slowly through almost half of Ecuador by bus. So
>> here are my personal impressions. It is an increadibly diverse
>> countries, withe some of the (large) native peoples leaving their
>> lives in traditional ways to a large extent. There is a strong
>> cooperative movement. Cooperatives are everywhere - production,
>> agriculture, transpotation. It seems that absolutely all the bus
>> companies are cooperatives. I ave not seen a private one yet, only
>> hundreds of transporatation cooperatives. All the long distance
buses
>> are cooperative, too. They have perfectly organized public
>> transportation. It is cheap and a great way for a tourist to see the
>> country. In each city, there is a "Terminal Terrestre" where
you ahve
>> tens (maybe hundreds in largest cities) offices of various
>> transportation cooperatives offering rides to other big cities and
all
>> places in the vicinity. All city transit systems I saw were
>> cooperatives, too. Many native tribes are said to have cooperatives
>> (e.g., fishing cooperatives) since Spanish colonial times.
>>
>> I have started learning Spanich seriously only a few weeks before my
>> departure, and only now start to understand a little bit what they
>> talk about on TV and radio. There are a few channels and many radio
>> stations that seems to talk about the current politics and the process
of
>> writing the new constitution almost all the day. The members of the
>> constitutional assembly were not selected at random from the
population, but
>> elected during the last general elections from the candidates choosen
by all
>> the more than 40 Ecuadorian parties. So there is quite a few
conservative
>> members in the Assembly, too, and the process is not straightforward
(I've
>> seem the intervies with one such member who was trying to frighten with
the
>> possibility of the flight of capital if the sancticy of private
property
>> would not be supported enough in the new constitution, and was claming
that
>> Ecuadorian president Correa is taking order from his
"commander", Hugo
>> Chavez of Venezuela).
>> But the Assembly has members from all kinds of groups, of all colors
of
>> skin, including natives, whom you do not see even in the new
progressive
>> government (until very recently, all the political and other life of
Ecuador
>> was control by a few hundred pure-bread families of European
descent).
>>
>> Every day, TV shows test of articles of constitution that are being
>> discussed or approved (I think). They decided already that the
central
>> government will have only a few powers (foreign policy, defence,
>> coordination of economy, registration of foreigner, perhaps some role
in the
>> health system, maybe I forgot one more thing). All other powers will
be
>> moved to provicens which are not big, and many. Provinces are
further
>> divided into cantons, and cantons then consist of individual
communities. It
>> seems that there all also going on provincial constitutional assemblies
at
>> the same time - at least in some provinces (judging from what I hear on
the
>> radio, and see on the slogans along the roads).
>>
>> The new constitutions also gives large autonomy to the indegious
nations.
>> Their traditional institutions and justice systems are being recognized
by
>> the new constitution. Decisions concerning their members on their
own
>> territoty, including the punishment for various crimes by their
traditional
>> justice are final, and must be recognized by the state organs.
>>
>> Radio stations are plenty, and seem to be communal nad provincial, and
deal
>> predominantly with local political matters, and seem to be enthusiatic
about
>> the constitutional process, and often talk about participation, and
rights
>> of children. For example, one of them, from the southern city of Loja
(near
>> which our meeting took place), anounced itself with a slogan "Loja
is a
>> participative, progressive and planned municipality".
>>
>> I saw a lot of woman members of various police forces.
>>
>> That's about all for now.
>> I'll try to learn more from a participant of our meeting  on my final
stop
>> in Quito in a few days - now I now better what to ask about.
>>
>> Mirek
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting Democracy By The People
<democracybythepeople(at)gmail.com>:
>>
>>   Hi Mirek,
>>>
>>> Thanks for this! I would like more information if you have it as
to
>>> whether
>>> the constitutional assembly currently drafting the new constitution
in
>>> Ecuador will create a constitutional framework for participatory
democracy
>>> as was done in Venezuela and attempted recently in Nicaragua...
In
>>> Venezuela
>>> people power is enshrined in the constitution and manifested
primarily in
>>> the form of communal councils... grassroots governing bodies...
in
>>> Nicaragua
>>> this did not make it into the constitution but Ortega has
instituted a
>>> similar program regardless...
>>>
>>> In Cuba there is a similar system but it has been highly criticized
for
>>> alleged exclusion of non-revolutionary patrty members. I have no
personal
>>> experience with that, but I can say from personal experience that
in
>>> Venezuela this process is democracy at it's finest and is
acheiving
>>> amazing
>>> results in terms of empowerment and levels of participation of the
people
>>> in
>>> their governance. Venezuela is by far the greatest laboratory
for
>>> participatory democracy around today.
>>>
>>> In Venezuela's ally Bolivia there are apparently no plans as of yet
to
>>> include a similar program in the constitution that is being
drafted, but
>>> Bolivia has a long history of grassroots activists groups being a
powerful
>>> force for shaping policy... perhaps in the future this political
force
>>> will be institutionalized if Evo's reforms are carried
through...
>>>
>>> So I am wondering if you have any information about Ecuador and
whether
>>> there are plans to include a structure for participatory democracy
within
>>> the new constitution... creating a similar system of communal
councils and
>>> the like...
>>>
>>> Let me know what you might find out..
>>>
>>> Thanks and safe travels,
>>>
>>> Matt - DBTP
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 11:30 AM,
<wddm(at)mkolar.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> I am writing from Equador from this Phoenix Gathering:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.wakingthephoenix.org/2008/03/roster-of-participants.html
>>>> (organized by Richard Moore).
>>>>
>>>> A lot a new interesting information here! A preview:
>>>>
>>>> Among others: Equador seems to be at the fore-front of
building
>>>> participative democracy from the grass-root level. They have
a
>>>> constitutional assembly preparting new participative
constitution.
>>>>
>>>> It was reported that a variation of the troika system proposed
by fred (
>>>> http://www.world-wide-democracy.net/forum/read.php?23,541,549#msg-549)
>>>> has
>>>> actually been implemented in Cuba for some time and is working
well.
>>>> Instead
>>>> of a group of three people, the basic group consists of about 7
to 12
>>>> families who select one representative to a higher (block)
level. It
>>>> takes
>>>> about 7 levels to get to the national assembly. They reportedly
also have
>>>> the following recall system: if a family decides not to support
a
>>>> representative they elected from their basic group, it is
recalled from
>>>> whatever higher level he/she was promoeted, and somebody else
has to be
>>>> chosen in his place.
>>>>
>>>> Equador is said to be in the process of implementing a very
similar
>>>> system.
>>>>
>>>> The Phoenix project site (http://www.wakingthephoenix.org)
is   
>>>>  planned to
>>>> be filled with a lot of information we heard diring this
meeting and soem
>>>> final document, and perhaps proposed actions. So check it out
in the near
>>>> future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Greetings, Mirek
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> DEMOCRACY BY THE PEOPLE
>>> Websites:
>>> http://www.democracybythepeople.blogspot.com/
>>> http://delaesquinacaliente.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>> Email: democracybythepeople(at)gmail.com
>>>
>>
>
> --
> DEMOCRACY BY THE PEOPLE
> Websites: . . .