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01368: Re: [WDDM] Repeted answer to Antonio

From: Giorgio Menon <giorgio.menon(at)pd.infn.it>
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:10:56 +0200
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Repeted answer to Antonio


G:
Here we go again. You say there's democracy and Democracy. I'm sure
there's
dEMOCRACY too and a friend of mine knows someone who claimes he saw
a DeMoCraCy once. Calling different situations with the same name
generates
only confusion. On the other hand pretending an existing situation is
"better"
that it really is remains a bad sign of schizophrenia IMHO.
Please let's separate dreams from reality. Dreams are a necessary
drive for
anyone. But reality has its own necessities.

I do not follow you here.

First: because there is difference from the reality outside, and the
reality inside
our words. Do you know about Alfred Korzybski's renown axiom:
"*The map is not the territory*"? As how I understand it, our
descriptions of reality are all maps of the reality
outside.


Reality (facts) has a different "weight" compared to our dreams and
thoughts. I agree



Second, and subsequent: Since all of what we put into words about reality
are maps, let's agree that one's map can be better than another's.


Yes, words pointing at a map closer to reality are to be preferred.
Words pointing at something that has never existed are to be avoided.
Agreed again



Third: "Reality", has no necessities. It is the one who maps out the
reality,
who has necessities, according with one's own ability to draw out and
read
maps, and the usefulness of the latter in avoiding blind alleys, ruins
and like.

A stone has the necessity to fall down, once thrown. Newton did an
excellent job describing it. Again i see that reality has necessities we
don't necessarily see. Oil is going to end soon, no matter how far we
like to put that end. Vulcanos will burst, tornados will strike,
earthquakes will shake the earth, the sun will heat the air up, the snow
will freeze it. We can try to describe this with poetry or scientific
formulae, but reality will care very little about it.



History has always shown just one face of democracy, no matter how you
like to write it. It's about 2500 years that the elites are
"democratically" ruling
the people.

I don't follow you, here. The term for the elites ruling the people is
oligarchy,
and not "democracy". Period.

Read on Wiki:
"All the Athenian citizens were eligible to speak and vote in the
Assembly, which set the laws of the city-state, but neither political
rights, nor citizenship, were granted to women
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women>, slaves
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaves>, or metics
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metics>. Of the 250,000 inhabitants only
some 30,000 on average were citizens. Of those 30,000 perhaps 5,000
might regularly attend one or more meetings of the popular Assembly."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

Are you trying to convince me that 5,000 citizens out of 250,000 is not
an elite? Question mark.



Questioning is not always a sign of wisdom. Would you question
driving on
the right lane?


Of course I do.

First, I question myself for whether that is the right lane.

If I'm unable to experience it myself, I search for the authority who
decided
that that is the right lane, and question him-her for which criteria
he-she used
to decide that that was the right lane.

Any question more ? ;-)


Yes. Should you find their criteria "irrational" for reasons only you
know, would you drive on the left lane then? (English and Australian
drivers please forgive me.....).



Dear Giorgio,

I cannot control the offer of oil in the markets of London and New
York.
I can only control my demand of oil


Do you own a solar powered car maybe? You can't control nearly anything
in the oil process. Surely you need it to move, and you (anyone,
actually)
indirectly use a huge amount of it even without moving. I read somewhere
that the few KJoule of a steak are nothing compared to the KJoule
needed to
transport, stock, refrigerate and cook it. Can you control this? The
system is
too big now to be controlled. And i'm quite sure that even at the top
of the
pyramidal societies people don't know much how to handle it. It's enough
for them to keep it running the way they like it.


Regards

Giorgio


But unfortunately, the oil is no endless energy resource. Perhaps in
forty,
perhaps in fifty years the oil will end. But it will end: may I
suggest you,
while wishing you an everlasting life, to be prepared for the oil end by
providing yourself with a bicycle? Maybe some training with it could be
the case.

Ciao,

antonio


If i correctly uderstand your words you're picturing out a future
situation where no oil is available and we all will be forced to use the
pushbike. Such future can't disturb me, as i like riding my bike. My
question: given that we know that sooner or later the oil will end, why
alternative solutions haven't been studied and planned? What power do
common people have to decide to switch, for instance, from oil to solar?
No power is my answer. They can only hope that oil companies, fearing
the end of their lucrative business, try to start a new game. Hydrogen
power, for example. Oil multinationals have been responsible for decades
of censorship and sabotage against new projects undermining their wealth
while promoting oil consumptions. SUVdocet.
"each gallon of gasoline burned pumps 28 pounds of CO2 into the
atmosphere, the average car emits about 63 tons of CO2 over its lifetime
— and the
average SUV or pickup emits around 82 tons.
In comparison:America’s automobiles produce
more global warming pollution than all the vehicles, power plants, and
factories in
Great Britain combined."
http://www.sierraclub.org/globalwarming/factsheets/BiggestStep_05.pdf

Regards

Giorgio



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