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00931: Re: [WDDM] Re: Toward a WDDM Charter

From: "Bruce Eggum" <bruce.eggum(at)gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:08:18 -0600
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Re: Toward a WDDM Charter

Thanks Filia, perhaps you have brought out the "key" of this problem.

Apparently it is the "Hierarchy" which you and many disapprove of.

Direct Democracy is (I suggest) a system in which the people of a community or state have total control of all their government. This control includes "hierarchal" systems such as the police, social services etc. Certainly it is good to have a "group" or all people having input into the planned operation of a system such as the police, but than how is the system to function if no plan is written and no hierarchal system is used to implement it? If the people decide how to run the Police force, than guidelines and procedures are also developed (by the people) and these need to be carried out. How will this Police Dept operate if nobody assigns "shifts", nobody is assigned to account for finances – How would you operate a Police force without a hierarchal system?

Yes, of necessity there is "money" in WDDM, where I do not really know. I also do not know if it will continue or end  abruptly. (these things we SHOULD know) If we are responsible members we would know how much WDDM costs, what revenue is needed, where the money is spent, if more money is needed for  various projects etc.

As a reputable organization, WDDM may attract more sponsors and WDDM would than be more "secure".

I hope Mirek responds to this. Mirek was asked to build the WDDM website, a thing many members wanted. Another area was email, which if we used Yahoo had caused problems amongst some members. Also, Yahoo, Google etc. are becoming hacked and less secure. Thus it was determined to have our own WDDM Email.

The present site is set up to translate languages so many different cultures and people can feel comfortable using it. This way a community may have their site in their language, discuss and make initiatives for themselves etc.

So, many things are going on at WDDM. Systems for communication have been set up such as Forum, where we can develop our organization and ALL can have input and take part in decision making. (democracy) The WIKI provides for all to have websites and Blogs.

Mirek has set this up so WDDM members could have total control of all decisions. The only thing missing is the structure to do this. As it is, Mirek finds himself in a position of deciding everything, making everything. He has continually asked for a structure so the WDDM Members could have input, but they refuse. So, if people refuse to participate, refuse to vote, refuse to develop a democratic system to run this Organization, than it is run dictrorally. We are fortunate Mirek is a friendly dictator (Hero)

Will the next webmaster be a "fair" dictator?

WDDM has accepted this and actually insists on remaining in this position.

Citizen Baby was another example of a group run dictorally. They had no structure to present initiatives, nor system to vote (either by ballot or a method to determine consensus.) As long as Citizen Baby met in a room where all could see each other, and was a small group, it perhaps could work. But if it expanded, many members and without organization, it is run than by one person. (that person usually winds up responsible for everything and burns out)

I believe DD is the CONTROL of the hierarchal systems within the organization or government. This can only be accomplished with a structure to do so.

It is the DECISION where control remains. That is why Referendum is the key to DD. All the ideas, all the think tanks, all the groups, all the organizations, all the parties are simply people gathered together brainstorming and often bringing an initiative to the floor for approval.

It is this approval, that DD must have. If the only thing DD people have is the vote, and only policy, actions, etc. are done AFTER the vote (peoples approval) than and only than do the people have control. There must be structure which requires the peoples final approval.

To me, that is DD.


ATB Bruce,



On 1/16/07, Filia den Hollander wrote:

Hi to all,

Bernard, I hadn't received your email, because I'm currently not on the WDDM list. I feel on and off a member. So thanks, Bruce for adding Bernard's email (below).

My position is as follows:
- in general I do not believe in organizational structures, for they open up to exactly what I am (and we are, I presume) against. An organization requires a leader, or chief administer who has everybody's trust (or, the other way around: who is beyond anyone's distrust). In this regard Mirek would, I believe, fit the profile. So I flat out disagree with Bruce.

- on internet a community with a set of rules is in my view undoable. This is simply because we cannot meet in the flesh and because reading all the stuff takes too much (of my) time. The best we can achieve is some etiquette as Bernard described some time ago – to not criticize each other but merely put one's own view beside the view of the one you disagree with. Let's remember that past revolutionaries –of Marxism, anarchism and so on, were individuals who traveled around a lot, and through meetings they could mobilize the people and their revolutionary energy.

- thirdly – and this is a point Ted Becker recently pointed out in a 1-on-1 email – there is no money to back WDDM as an organization up. We can already be immensely grateful for the quiet and persevering work Mirek is doing. (Let's make Mirek our local hero  ;-)

- fourth – a point Leopoldo Salgui made – to need an organizational structure is when a group becomes too big. Small groups or local groups can simply start initiatives and other groups can help in terms of exchanging expertise and feedback. A great example of this is what George is doing in Greece.


As regard to my response to Bernard – that came from a personal irritation. For discretion reasons I will clarify myself in a 1-on-1 email to him.


With kind regards,
Filia






--
Bruce Eggum
Gresham Wisconsin, USA
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