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00890: Re: [WDDM] Re: AN EXPERIMENTAL FRAMEWORK FOR COMMUNITY DEMOCRACY (1.0)

From: "Bruce Eggum" <bruce.eggum(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 23:26:37 -0600
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Re: AN EXPERIMENTAL FRAMEWORK FOR COMMUNITY DEMOCRACY (1.0)

 ( I copy all on this post I received)

Richard Moore

Hi Richard and all,

Bernard is right, we are not using the same meaning to some words. Thus confusion.

: Bernard Clayson wrote:

Most of all, the "control" topic should be accounted.  Who

is who controls the "Wisdom Councils -- that in turn have

to control about the Government decisions?


Richard Moore wrote: No one 'controls' Wisdom Councils. Anyone can 'convene' one as a service to the community. My proposal is about eliminating government, not controlling its decisions.


Dear Richard,

Here in the US, government is the entire unit. This includes the Military, Health, Education, Welfare Social Services, Social Security etc. Government includes all these workers; police, fire people, highway construction and maintenance, etc. Some public Utilities such as phone and electricity are "owned" by the communities and they to are a part of government.

Thus, when you say eliminate government, (as I understand the term) you would destroy everything the people have built for their communities, their society.

I do not know how to even ask a question to clarify the matter. It is good to realize we are not talking about the same thing. Now how to get on the same page?

I also get confused when people say they are going to shut down the government. I came to believe they meant shut down Parliament. We cannot shut down our Congress, which is our elected body of representatives. How so you shut down parliament? Or is this another of my misunderstandings?

We in the USA have a "Republic" which breaks down the structure into Federal, State, County, Townships, Towns and Cities. Each of these has their own "government" body and fulfills the workings of that area it covers. This is necessary so some coordination is possible between all these different communities. Our officials are elected to "represent" us. Thus we call our government a Representative Republican form of government. This is the "form" of government.

Obviously no one person (you or I) could or should manage all these national decisions and implement them. An administration is needed. Here is where I think Direct Democracy, the Swiss form would be fitting to our situation.

It could than grow, and if people took more responsibility, government could actually be run directly by the people. Once the people were able to make all the decisions which our "Congress" now makes, and be able to "administer" meaning to operate the many departments, keeping them accountable etc. It would be simple to than make a referendum to utilize this "direct" democracy form of government.

So your goal of "eliminating government" is very freighting to me, because we would loose much.

Now, perhaps you meant to modify the form of government? That would take a large educational process of media, books, websites, etc. Once people were convinced of this method their would be lots of people joining who could eventually "change" the form of government.

This is what I hope WDDM will choose to do. By providing a site which educates the people on the merits of SOME form of direct democracy, people the world over could begin to process this in their communities, discussing it, tearing it apart and putting it together until they have some workable form of Direct Democracy. They can than petition for and hold a referendum on it to determine if the people of that community will approve and ratify it.

This is where all the bottom up top down gaffing makes no sense to me. Whoever develops this form of Government, be it the people, a think tank, an author of a book, or even the present government, if the people want that form, petition for it, and that form of government is ratified by a referendum of all the electorate (people recognized as voters in that community) than it has been decided by the people and that is democracy.

I copied the following from the UK Dictionary, (below) and it does not help me understand what you mean by "government". It says: the group of people who officially control a country

Is this is what you want? If so, than you would have different people in parliament.Same parliament form of government.

Would you please explain what government is to you, and if this is generally accepted terminology in Europe?

Thanks, Bruce Eggum USA
 

UK Dictionary

government

group noun {C} (WRITTEN ABBREVIATION govt)

the group of people who officially control a country:

- the government of Israel

- The government is/are expected to announce its/their tax proposals today.

- The minister has announced that there will be no change in government policy.

- Senior government officials will be attending a meeting tomorrow.

- Theatre companies are very concerned about cuts in government grants to the arts.

- A government enquiry has been launched.

government

noun {U}

1 the system used for controlling a country, city, or group of people:

- The 1990s have seen a shift to democratic government in Eastern Europe.

- What this state needs is really strong government.


2 the activities involved in controlling a country, city, group of people, etc:

- The party that was elected to power has no experience of government.

- UK The party was in government

(= controlled the country) for four years in the 1960s.

governmental

adjective

- We await a governmental decision (= a decision made by the government) about the future of the programme.

http://www.freesearch.co.uk/dictionary/government




On 1/7/07, Richard Moore wrote:

Bernard Clayson wrote:
Most of all, the "control" topic should be accounted.  Who
is who controls the "Wisdom Councils -- that in turn have
to control about the Government decisions?


No one 'controls' Wisdom Councils. Anyone can 'convene' one as a service to the community. My proposal is about eliminating government, not controlling its decisions.


--
Bruce Eggum
Gresham Wisconsin, USA, www.doinggovernment.com; Check out my Blog too: bruceeggum.blogster.com

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