Re Daniel Rosen Martin Jackson

["Pras Anand" <pras_anand(at)hotmail.com>]

Hi Martin,

I wanted to respond to your response on Daniel, it is not that I am upset by your words, rather they gave me some interesting topics with which to respond and express some ideas and thoughts to the group. I thought I'd construct a response to each of your comments.

The only system of all real form of Direct Democracy is the Swiss political system (still very limited)

definitely an example we should all take more notice of

It is hard enough to get people to vote at election

because they realise there is no point in voting because the democracy is a joke (direct is just a codeword for true)

The only places that have used true direct democracy are some companies have experimented with it in their workplaces

i think before you say this kind of thing, it's worth considering what Daniel actually is doing, have you looked at his site? http://vpsystems.net/Nevada/ I understand that there are frustrations all around, but let's learn about each other a little and make it a positive outcome - I see forums turn into ego-matches on gaming or technology forums, but please let's not do it here - the frustration is normal it should fuel our growth and change - idealistic?

If you look at USA a very high percentage are religious, most will be waiting on their savour to come and fix it for them.

alas, another flaw in the idea we call democracy - people like different things and don't really care about the issues and most people are not trained to make real decisions but again - you are talking to someone who is running for US congress. Think about his level of awareness of the situations before you tell him to look at your distant media-translated view of the country.

A person that was an union official who studied phycology said to me ,that society is made up of 30% that are fighters,40% take the middle ground and 30% fight for nothing (so 70% are really followers)

A bunch of numbers that who? a union official? is this some kind of model you are quoting? that's an interesting argument, but I think you are underestimating the depth of these kinds of models. People and society has balances in it for reasons of survival. For example, the human species need a majority who will not think different and will be very disinterested in doing so. This is so the society doesn't change too quickly and break. Like mutations in a species if everyone was a mutant, the species would die out. It takes a number of mutators in our society to bring and create the change and these balances are healthy to a group of beings. To quote figures like this is not even an argument, in fact there is no argument even present in that sentence, rather it sounds like arguments i used to hear at school. I appreciate we are all here for change, but if you are going to really communicate with someone, read the email - follow the links - read about the person you are dealing with a little more, think, then respond. This is just a suggestion.

The truth is society gets the governments it deserves because the majority sit back and do nothing, people are lazy when it comes to politics

I agree with you although I never agree with stating what "the truth is" as this is not open minded. Democracy means nothing with open minds to use it - exactly the problem we face today. People don't think. We are also encouraged to be lazy, there has been a function of power-farmers for many years. Keep the people ignorant, fearful of the unknown and all thinking the same way. Religion, Media, Government, Corporations etc. This is what behemoth organisations need to survive. People who cause pain, terror and death in the names of Religion, government or whatever are failing to see the basic teachings that we are purporting to living our lives by. Thou shall not kill. I know this can be interpreted in many ways but killing civilians of your side and their side is subject to this commandment. I know that we are not all christian (I for example am not - I believe that all religions are attempting to control people to get them to look at their interpretation of something that is so much deeper. No-one approaching any deeply true spiritual and intellectual awareness could accept such ancient stories as true. Obviously there is deep wisdom in all religions but what you find is this - people don't understand the wisdom they are reading and secondly, the ones who get it, didn't need a religion to discover that wisdom since it is omnipresent. I don't need Mohammed to tell me that I shouldn't kill, and no matter how much Allah told me to do so I would refuse. A leader that asks us to hurt ourselves and each other is wrong - period. That's a crime of leadership - and yet we sit idly by while the world increments in daily steps towards a fascist take-over.

It is going to take a long time to convince people of direct democracy ,it may take a world tragedy before people are prepare to silent

Possibly, but I'd rather support someone who is attempting to create a solution to this problem than someone who is pessimistic enough to use that as an argument against someone who is actually attempting to create solutions. There is in the end a lot of frustration in this role, but how strong must one be to support that path? Rather than stand back and claim to be wanting a better world and portraying an element of intellectual masturbation in showing each other how good we are at doing it. If someone else is trying, then please take note and understand why they might be frustrated at everyone sitting back saying "i'll believe it when I see it". Get off your backside and have the courage to make that change into a positive one, otherwise sit down with the other 70% as you put it and let the rest of us get on with the job.

Without any doubt it will produce the best system of government, when people are involved, get them involved is the challenge

It is, I am working on that for many years at a very deep level. I'll tell you what the solution is - ask people what they want in their lives. In all kinds of ways. People are trying to get others involved in their studies of political systems, and they forget that elections are won with media systems. Current media systems allow multidirectional communication, so people need to learn again how to respond to information and not just "partake" as they do with TV for instance. Getting people involved isn't the challenge - the real challenge is asking yourselves why people don't get involved. Then going and making a solution to create that - or you stay at the level of the teenager who is frustrated with the world in which they live.

When l read your email quite awhile ago where you had very high hopes, the dream and the reality can be 2 different things

You will see where this reality will go and only when it is finished, you will appreciate it. If you have solid contributions to a global political engine, try writing about them hear, I would love us all to start sharing our ideas here and not discussing what needs to be done. Someone has to crack the whip in this forum and say to people, we are all here for one reason, to try and enact some change. What are we going to do now? Right now? Let's send in a brief description of ourself and our work so we can get an idea of who's in the group and get a picture of who could contribute something. I guess anyone who's reading this email to this stage must be interested to debate some of these issues we've all raised recently? What about a few of us organising a little event or conference?

Politics is are hard and dirty world money protect what they have got very strongly.

You write as if you are talking to a 10 year old child, but this email is directed to one of the deepest thinkers I've met in years. He also happens to be running for govenor of a US state. This gives him a pretty good viewpoint. Also since he is a keen observer of many things, I think this statement shows a

The one thing that is still alive and well, is the hunter in man (their at a lot that live for war)and like to bring harm to people

Hunters used to work for the village chiefs, wisemen, etc. The village model also suggests we have a chief who chooses another chief, should we follow that? What about democracy? Precious democracy! Has anyone even considered that we have a global electronic engine for choices that we call money? Corporations gain power by us spending our money on them. Isn't that a vote? Isn't that a direct democracy? If we want a company to fall we can try to convince others to not buy their products and on some occaisions this has changed high level executives' minds on their policies (re Shell). The village chief is a benign dictator, this character is a good political model. A benign leadership group - like a government but made up of different rules.. Anyone reading this still, should give me an email if they are interested in the projects I have developed to create this situation.

If as a group we became really successful, lot of support to change to DD this is something we would face.

It would be nice to support DD initiatives and become strong as a group, but we are all guilty of not actively creating that situation ourselves. Look at how you've reacted to Daniels strong way of saying something that needed to be said? How about responding with understanding? or with knowledge of his work, approach and "against all odds" positive drive? Look, this might now be starting to sound like a pro Daniel campaigner.. But I am not necessarily talking about him, the point is that if people say they want change, and then don't support the people who are out there trying and struggling - then they are nothing but cowards, hipocrites and worse than anything - self-indulgant critics who have the arrogance and ignorance to assume that they know what it's like to really create a real difference that people are not yet ready for.

As far as funding your campaign l am just an ordinary person with a wife and 3 children, and very little excess money.

Are there other ways we can contribute to each other? for example what kinds of battles do you face with your government? Which country do you live? Where can we find out more and let's get working on some solutions?! Talking is only really useful if we are creating a solution, so let's bring out our problems at get at it here :)

I have been involved in fighting for a change to political system for 10 years now and l can see it may be an all my life battle

I am not suggesting I can understand how hard your battle has been, I am just saying that we can learn from each others experiences and suggest ways we can help each other internationally to influence the political system. Let's put it this way - of all the millions of people on earth, in whichever place - a tiny minority make decisions. These are people who send us to war, who rape our pockets, our minds (and those of our children), who are supposed to represent the common good but got their job out of desire for personal gain. We can help each other from our different stations, job, activities etc. Let's get to know what we do and what we can do to help create new tools for change that can affect our worlds in a positive way? If anyone is thinking right now to themself "how ideallistic, it will never happen etc" then please don't respond to me directly, I don't waste my time with people who predict failiure. If you are convicted enough to make a change, I would like to offer any support me or my networks might be able to offer you. At least in terms of talking about it on an internet mailing group. (which is really cool by the way - excellent forum!)

In the history of people live on this earth we have not achieved good system of governances, the battle has to continue.

That's a joke. There are countless examples of good governance in historic terms, but also in our day to day lives. Governance is a flawed concept in our society because of some very basic design flaws in the current system. We can summarise them easily with words like "greed - corruption - apathy - isolation" I add isolation because the real problem is that people don't understand other types of people so easily. They can't even have truly honest open relations with their friends, how could they have an open honest relationship with their constituents or society. This is a big job and like any job there are people who do it well and people who don't. Currently the governments are run the way they are because they run on a very old business model. I say business model because the government is a company, it's a management company that has no competition during the elected period and therefore doesn't have to be efficient or responsive. It is not rewarded for saving money and is controlled by people we choose to lead for us. To change this people need to understand how easy it is to make choices once given the opportunity. As a child who grew up with computers, I was designing cities with sim-city 20 years ago. I was thinking about the choices and therefore have a much heightened ability to work with heads of city planning for instance. People have no problem knowing what they would choose if they have the information. And the reason people aren't responsive is because the education system we employ in our society isn't designed to get people to understand how to think. I mean really think, for themselves. That will mean more to some than others I guess. Thanks for reading my expressions and ideas, since you got to the end, please let me know what you do and let's get something going.