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00164: Re: Reply to Filia from Ted

From: "Jiri Polak" <jiri.polak(at)swipnet.se>
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:30:00 +0200
Subject: Re: Reply to Filia from Ted

Hello Ted and all,
I, too, regret the counterproductive quarrels and regret Filia´s abstention.
But there are more channels for her excellent work. As to cooperation with
IRI-Europe, Mehr Demokratie ... my impression is that they are not
interested in structured citizen deliberation and hardly interested in other
parts of the world than Europe. Ibelieve that the WDDM should be truly
global and deal with all components of DD, not just I&R. But if the European
I&R people would like to join this channel, I would be pleased.
The good news is that Mirek seriously considers participation in the
September conference. That would advance us considerably.
Sincerely, Jiri
----- Original Message -----
From: "Filia den Hollander" <fkdh(at)xs4all.nl>
To: "WDDM" <wddm@world-wide-democracy.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: Reply to Filia from Ted


Dear everyone,

I apologize for urging you to stimulate Arjen Nijeboer to open up for
collaboration. Apparently this gives space for misinterpretation and this
was not my intention.

I've also requested Mirek to take me off this list.


Kind regards,
Filia den Hollander









op 21-04-2005 05:39 schreef Ted Becker op becketl(at)auburn.edu:

Hi.

My, my. Trouble amongst the DD folks in the Netherlands. Seems to be
endemic. Did you know about the TWO!!! DD conferences going
simulataneously
!!!in Athens? Oh well.

Anyway, sure, I'll be glad to edit it for you...into American....We don't
speak English here. It's much too elegant.

As for asking Arjen to open up to collaboration with you, let me tell you
that
I'm a professional mediator.....so my role would be to ask him for
you...as an
intermediary. But before I could do that, you'd have to tell me something
that would appeal to him. It appears to me from what you wrote that there
is...a problem?....a dispute?.....disagreement?......what? And what would
you/us offer him to join with us?

Actually, I think that we might consider first asking Mehr Demokratie to
join
with us....isn't Franz Isemann one of us? He was at Athens and wanted to
host
the Third CCIDD....but couldn't convince the M.D. board. However, they
might
be open to joining our virtual CCIDD, or WWWDDDMMMM (pick onr or two of
any
and form your own acronym.) And if they came on board personally and/or
officially...then perhaps it would be attractive to some of the Dutch
groups....particularly Arjen. Also, Bruno Kauffmann. He never came to
any of
our Congresses......but is sympathetic. And how about Andreas Gross?

I'm not sure if George and Jiri are reading this, but if not, why not
forward
this idea to them....and maybe Jiri, George and I can invite MD, IRI
Europe,
and Andi's Eurotopia to join in as well. All these folks have been
associated
with us to some degree or another....and just couldn't make the
trip....but
are in synch. I think they would be excellent additions if they would be
willing. Thus, we would be beginning a collaborative network that hasn't
happened before.

Ted.
==================

fkdh(at)xs4all.nl 04/20/05 5:12 PM >>>
Dear Ted and all,

You know what - Saturday (keep my fingers crossed ;-) I will send out all
the material I have, for both the WDDM and the WDDF, including my unedited
and bumpy-English texts on Amsterdams Initiatief. I had prepared quite
detailed information about Amsterdams Initiatief, originally meant to be
published by Newropeans and/or Europe 2020 (organizations/thinktanks on
democracy issues by Franck Biancheri and Marie-Hélène Caillol). I never
came
around to actually finish them and deliver them and I still feel
embarrassed
about it. Ted, would you be willing to give me a hand - if I send the
Amsterdams Initiatief texts to you on Friday, would you be willing to turn
them in your best English ???

As for the Dutch situation... Yes, perhaps the Dutch situation is like a
reasonably well functioning car and I am complaining about its bumper...
(But no, things are really going downwards here. We "adapt" to the
European
standard because the EU adapting to our standard is considered "too
expensive".)

One other thing - it would be useful if people from the outside could urge
/
invite Arjen Nijeboer and Co to open up to collaboration with me (things
went wrong in the past because we had to grow psychologically into mature
DD
activists). Not in terms of “help” or “personal favors” but in terms of
other DD community members who in general speak up that we should work
together -or at least keep each other informed- and that this would
benefit
the DD community as a whole. (DD = direct democrcay)
Arjen Nijeboer <arjen.nijeboer(at)referendumplatform.nl>
Arjen Nijeboer <arjen(at)arjennijeboer.nl>
Tel. Mobile +31 (0)6 524 50 279
Tel. Agora Europe +31 (0)20 638 05 58
Fax Agora Europe +31 (0)20 420 77 59
Address Agora Europe (Agora Europe is a Dutch government funded
organization
to investigate and assist participative projects. Its president is Eisse
Kalk, member of Referendum Platform and its former president was Niesco
Dubbelboer, also member of Referendum Platform and currently member of
Parliament for the PvdA. Arjen works there and all “institution mail”, to
Referendum Platform, Initiative & Referendum Institute Europe (Bruno
Kaufmann’s club), and, European Referendum Campaign Netherlands, is sent
to
this address):
Entrepotdok 19-A
1018 AD Amsterdam
The Netherlands

I’m saying this, because Anthony Coughlan and Leopoldo Salgui reminded
me/us
today that we shouldn’t fall asleep regarding the referendums in France
and
in the Netherlands. We should take care that we prevent ourselves from the
DD debacle as we had with the Spanish referendum. Meaning: we should start
preparing ourselves for coordinated action.


Regards to all,
Filia




op 20-04-2005 16:12 schreef Ted Becker op becketl(at)auburn.edu:

At last. Some real info about what folks are DOING about DD somewhere.
Thanks Filia for filling me in. I was wondering what was going on with
DD in The Netherlands...one of the most enlightened countries in the
world (don't deny it).....

First, thrill to the fact that you live in a [...]



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