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02255: Re: [WDDM] Hello as a new member.

From: Luca Zampetti <luca_zampetti(at)yahoo.it>
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:49:17 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Hello as a new member.

Sorry I am at work, I can reply only in flying ... Parteienstaat is over ... regime breakdown imminent ... US is in critical legitimacy crisis ... EU illegittimate system of government ... likely crisis of a Weimarerian type imminent ... alternatives ... dictatorship or MORE democracy ... we are not at the end of history, we were not, we have never been ... we have not seen anything yet ... democracy is the reign of human rights, not of elections ... I recommend warmly the article of the Swiss lawyer Zaccaria Giacometti on this regard ... everything of what CAN come ... against which elitistic "democracy" is fighting since 250 years is in the origins ... was in Thomas Paine ... The Rights of Man ... in Condorcet ... constitutional project with Thomas Paine ... in 1776 nobody could imagine that monarchy could be replaced by "republics" after 1000 years of history ... it happened ... not without blood ... now we are going towards a similar turning point ... the elitistic forces are trying to set up a centralized world government, to put the rotten Parteienstaaten under pharmacological coma ... it will not work ... it might be the only main cause for the 3rd (or 4th, depending on you count) world war ... if there is to be "democracy" after this, it will be Swiss type ... only a "democracy" in which there is no monopoly of fiscal power anymore can be considered legitimate in future ... the residual of monarchy in the modern "democratic" Parteienstaat is fiscal monopoly ... on top of which you have legislative monopoly ... then we might have World Government monopoly ... introduced by a private central world bank probably ... this needs to be avoided ... at any cost ... the next step of growth of the realm of human rights is radical decentralization ... "the dethronement of politics" as FA von Hayek called it ...

LZ


Da: Antonio Rossin <rossin(at)tin.it>
A: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Cc: Jud Evans <gevans613(at)aol.com>
Inviato: Mercoledì 12 agosto 2009, 14:29:40
Oggetto: Re: [WDDM] Hello as a new member.

Hi Luca,

I find your analysis very good. Yet, as far as I can understand, it reads that in most of our so-called Democracies the democratic Constitution, having been set up by "We the People", disempowers us citizens from any initiative and control power - especially that of changing the Constitutional Chart in order to make it suitable for any initiative and control power by the people.

In other words, how could we democracy lovers change our democratic Constitution via our democratic rules, since the democratic rules of our constitutional Democracy disallow us from democratically making any such changes?

Quite strangely, too many of us Democracy activists still insist in the timewasting illusion of being themselves able to improve Democracy by changing the Constitutional Chart in office. Very simply, and very naively, they are walking a blind alley.  Let's agree, any improved Democracy will unavoidably install, once improved, an improved thus more suitable Constitutional Chart -  but not the way around!

Maybe, our western democracies are suffering from too much reificationalist attitude
in people, which implies that the needed change should be investigated somewhere else than the reification of formal democracy.

To those interested: more at "Democracy Religion Drugs"
( http://evans.experientialism.freewebspace.com/rossin11.htm )


Best regards,  antonio

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reifications (like biological entozoic infections of the gut) are
proto-socio-neurological enculturations and as useful fictions
are  not necessarily symbiotic with, nor necessarily benignly
adjuvant to the welfare of their unwitting and often naive hosts.
Jud Evans.

Freedom in humans consists of the ability to liberate oneself
from the tyranny of reificationalist imprinting.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Luca Zampetti ha scritto:
The proportional voting system in Switzerland works because of the special social conditions there ("Konkordanzdemokratie"), in many other places this system produces strong "rent seeking" effects (Italy).

There is no single instrument for controlling the "rent seeking" influence of special interest groups and of political parties in "Parteienstaat" models of government, these phenomena can (and must) be controlled with many instruments.

The direct and/or indirect control of special interests and of parties can be controlled partially with the return to the Athenian purely stochastic (s)election for a majority of seats (reserving let´s say 51% of them for stochastic (s)election. Every voting system can be manipulated and has both advantages and disadvantages. The point is that no voting system is chosen or designed explicitely for controlling politics and politicians, but for empowering them.

Equally important is: increase the number of direct (s)elective positions in the judiciary and in the executive/administrative branches.

Equally important are additional instruments for voting away politicians and administrators: recall elections, popular veto elections.

The cost of democracy must be in a relation to its productivity. The overall goal must be to use direct democracy instruments to guarantee as much as possible the social productivity of political activities. When the cost is higher than productivity, like in the Parteienstaat, the political institutions break down by themselves anyway in the long run. The question is with what to replace them.

What is required is a general concept for re-engineering democracy so that it becomes compatible with a new-old requirement, i.e. its "controllability", which is related to accountability, but only partially. Our concept of democracy is incomplete: it was successful with delegation, but very miserable with control. It lacks practically all efficient instruments of political and fiscal control. The effects are devastating: we have states that have more powers than totalitarian regimes and we cannot control them efficiently anymore.

There are some powers that definitely need to be withdrawn from legislative institutions, like the budgeting rights, which parliaments arrogated from the kings in many hundreds of years.

Financial referenda should become the standard budgeting procedure.

The budgeting institutions should not be parliaments anymore, but courts of accounts with popularly elected judges and jurors.

Another power that should be withdrawn is the constitution making and revision power, it is definitely a separate power from the legislative, executive and judiciary and it should be institutionalized in separated PERMANENT constitutional assemblies of directly (s)elected representatives (small bodies at regional, national and supranational level).

Constitution making and revision should be out of the hands of professional politicians.

Constitutional initiative, total and partial, should be reserved to the people with proper referendary procedures "organized" under the permanent constitutional assemblies.

And so on ...

Luca Zampetti

(snip)


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