In the time we are discussing intellectual prospective of direct democracy, people and humanity is suffering of dicatatorships, corrupt and half democracies. To build an ideal and perfect democracy is not an easy case bacause nature
and livings rules are complicated and all questions and mysteries are not answered yet. We can not build a perfect
democracy from beginning but we can start somewhere based on some simple principles decided in democratic way by majority of people while we are trying to satisfy even minorities as long as possible. One of these principles can be that
no one is allowed to decide in behalf of others and normal minded adults against their will. Later on we can continue by
making new decisions in democratic way to solve new problems and desires.
We can not allow dictators and other illwilling people to continue torture other people and stop social and welfare progress
anymore.
Regards
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:13:00 +0000
From: latalondon(at)yahoo.co.uk
To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Hello as a new member.
Hello Bill... and welcome,
I have been reading your introduction message and some of the responses to it.
As you can probably tell by now, we have been knocking our heads together for quite some time about how to define desireable democratic processes and how to give democracy and the term "Direct" any sort of real meaning. Many of us have some knowledge, others just opinions, some are published researchers, some have developed quasi-constitutions which they have shared with us. Many have proposed models and game trials and all have received mixed responses from our co-thinkers on here too.
It is great to see this group growing and it is great that new people with ideas and knowledge are interested in discussing these things. However, I can tell you I did exactly the same thing when I joined, I thought I would find a group that's in agreement, a group that is cohesive and ready to take on the world with a focused and defined objective. Well, that's not quite the case here. We are still trying to agree amongst ourselves. At times there are more proposals being offered than people willing to engage with them. Also, it stands to reason that most people who would bother to join this type of group are eager to put forward their own contribution, so you will find few followers here. When your ideas tickle people they will engage with you, mostly to define where they are in agreement with you and where they are not. Many will simply re-state they persional ideological mantra. It's all quite interesting... which Im sure won't be lost on a person of your background. I hope you don't find that process too frustrating.
I have recently had a discussion on here about the role of the ego in social behaviour and I wish you had "been here" for that. Personally, I am beginning to get something out of this group. As for it being an actual tool for practical projects, I doubt its immediate suitability. We still haven't found what we're looking for and there are quite a few suggestions we have been urged to "get behind" that have received a mixed response. But please don't let this put you off, if you share your views and people respond, this group is already doing its job. Awareness works in strange ways.
Welcome once again
Lata
--- On Wed, 12/8/09, Luca Zampetti <luca_zampetti(at)yahoo.it> wrote:
From: Luca Zampetti <luca_zampetti(at)yahoo.it>
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Hello as a new member.
To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Date: Wednesday, 12 August, 2009, 9:21 AM
The proportional voting system in Switzerland works because of the special social conditions there ("Konkordanzdemokratie"), in many other places this system produces strong "rent seeking" effects (Italy). There is no single instrument for controlling the "rent seeking" influence of special interest groups and of political parties in "Parteienstaat" models of government, these phenomena can (and must) be controlled with many instruments. The direct and/or indirect control of special interests and of parties can be controlled partially with the return to the Athenian purely stochastic (s)election for a majority of seats (reserving let´s say 51% of them for stochastic (s)election. Every voting system can be manipulated and has both advantages and disadvantages. The point is that no voting system is chosen or designed explicitely for controlling politics and politicians, but for empowering them. Equally important is: increase the number of direct (s)elective positions in the judiciary and in the executive/administrative branches. Equally important are additional instruments for voting away politicians and administrators: recall elections, popular veto elections. The cost of democracy must be in a relation to its productivity. The overall goal must be to use direct democracy instruments to guarantee as much as possible the social productivity of political activities. When the cost is higher than productivity, like in the Parteienstaat, the political institutions break down by themselves anyway in the long run. The question is with what to replace them. What is required is a general concept for re-engineering democracy so that it becomes compatible with a new-old requirement, i.e. its "controllability", which is related to accountability, but only partially. Our concept of democracy is incomplete: it was successful with delegation, but very miserable with control. It lacks practically all efficient instruments of political and fiscal control. The effects are devastating: we have states that have more powers than totalitarian regimes and we cannot control them efficiently anymore. There are some powers that definitely need to be withdrawn from legislative institutions, like the budgeting rights, which parliaments arrogated from the kings in many hundreds of years. Financial referenda should become the standard budgeting procedure. The budgeting institutions should not be parliaments anymore, but courts of accounts with popularly elected judges and jurors. Another power that should be withdrawn is the constitution making and revision power, it is definitely a separate power from the legislative, executive and judiciary and it should be institutionalized in separated PERMANENT constitutional assemblies of directly (s)elected representatives (small bodies at regional, national and supranational level). Constitution making and revision should be out of the hands of professional politicians. Constitutional initiative, total and partial, should be reserved to the people with proper referendary procedures "organized" under the permanent constitutional assemblies. And so on ... Luca Zampetti
Da: Jim Powell <autoinfo(at)acenet.co.za>
A: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Inviato: Mercoledì 12 agosto 2009, 9:33:12
Oggetto: RE: [WDDM] Hello as a new member.
Hi Bill,
I believe that the only way we can get rid of special interests is for the funding of political parties to be from the tax base. We should regard this as a cost of democracy
The contributions should be a skewed % of elected representivity. For example, if the majority party gets 60% of the vote it gets 50% of the contribution. A party with 10% would get 15%. If a new party emerges, the contribution will be in accordance with the number of signatures it obtains. Contributions to political parties and paying of signature collectors should be illegal.
The Swiss system seems to work well. One item I disagree with in the Swiss constitution is that the politicians are on a proportional basis. I believe that there should be a constituency basis with a vote for PR. This would allow for a reflection of the overall wishes of the voters
Regards
Jim Powell
From: William McConochie [tstmastr(at)rio.com]
Sent: 11 Aug 2009 08:08 PM
To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Cc: Bill McConochie
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Hello as a new member.
Hi, Hamid. In essence, I do agree with your description of democracy. Please read articles on my web site, Politicalpsychologyresearch.com. the book manuscript, publication #3, describes the model for a new form of political party designed to promote public democracy. Let me know your impressions. Bill.
----- Original Message -----
To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:28 AM
Subject: RE: [WDDM] Hello as a new member.
Hi
As I understand the government in direct democracy system is employee of people and not leaders.
People don´t need to hope and appreciate for services from government. They employ government members and tell
the government what should be done in a democratic way.
If you agree with me I would like to read about your articles.
Regards
From: tstmastr(at)rio.com
To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
CC: bill(at)testmasterinc.com
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 04:40:06 -0700
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Hello as a new member.
Thank you Martin. Let me know your thoughts and how your members might be interested in my research studies. Bill.
----- Original Message -----
To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 3:05 AM
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Hello as a new member.
Bill, welcome to World Wide Direct Democracy l am sure a person of your standing will bring great value to our movement, and l look forward to researching your work.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill(at)Politicalpsychologyresearch.com
To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 4:01 PM
Subject: [WDDM] Hello as a new member.
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:03:32 -0700
Hello World Wide Democracy group members:
I am a new member, Bill McConochie. I am a research psychologist specializing for the past several years in political psychology research. My findings and personal inclinations are very consonnant with those of your organization. I believe I could help you in several ways to promote and realize your ultimate goal of advancing human civilization to direct democracy forms of governments. I will list some of these and await your responses. Before I do that, let me share just a little more personal background. I have a Ph.D., and 40 years of experience in clinical, I/O and now political psychology. I have created a non-profit corp. to publish my research and conduct research over the Internet. I am a member of the American Psychological Assn, Div. 48 (Peace and Violence studies), the International Society of Political Psychology, and the Oregon Psychological Assn. I present papers at the annual meetings of ISPP. I will present one in Dublin in July (09).
How I might be able to help you:
1. I have research findings that strongly support human desire for government serving them as members of the community overall rather than as members of special interest groups. This sort of data, of which I have much, can support your efforts, giving them an empirical and not just ideological grounding.
2. I have developed a reliable and valid scale for measuring the warmongering-proness of political leaders, and have another one ready for validation measuring constructive leadership traits. These can be used by the media to help inform voters re: what elected officials are likely to promote.
3. I have designed a working model for a political party whose platform is based on member (citizen) polls of what they want government to provide (policies and programs).
4. Sophisticated public polls on details of policy issues can be conducted to create the platform for such a party (and for your organization). They in effect pool all citizen opinions to create a current empirical definition of the common good. Your organization could conduct such polls and publish the findings to inform nations and the world re: what citizens want from government. This can help pressure standing governments to perform more appropriately and empower political parties that want to represent the common good (such parties, I recommend, should be funded entirely with member dues, no special interest group money). Such parties would fund the campaigns of their candidates for elective office as well, keeping their elected candidates independent of the contaminating influence of special interest group money.
5. You could help me by having students and other groups, e.g. church groups, fill out my research questionnaires, which are online at my web site.
6. Together we could thus continue the research that can give empirical grounding to your movement and perfect the public polls necessary to operationalize public democracy, defining policy via citizen votes.
This is enough for an introduction. Please visit my web site to read various research and essay articles under the Publications page. Politicalpsychologyresearch.com.
I look forward to hearing responses.
Best regards, Bill McConochie
William A. McConochie, Ph.D.
Licensed Psychologist #225 (Oregon)
71 E.15th Ave., Eugene, Or. 97401
541-686-9934
Bill(at)Politicalpsychologyresearch.com
|
|