Dear Mr. Jiri Polak, The proposed platform would indeed be another discussion channel but the discussion would be centered around developing an alternative to the concept of political parties.
It would be tailored to putting up candidates in elections independent of political parties and hence would have a focussed target group.
It can form a nidus for action on the ground.
The potential of the internet can be harnessed to the utmost advantage.
Sincerely,
Vijayaraghavan P
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:01:48 +0200 wddm@world-wide-democracy.net wrote
Dear Mr.Padmanabhan, to set up the platform you propose is surely useful, but it can only become yet another discussion channel without any real impact on concrete political systems. A transformation into true democracy must be enforced in communes, villages, towns, regions and states by local people. There is no other way. Sincerely, Jiri Polak
----- Original Message ----- From: Vijayaraghavan Padmanabhan
To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 6:53 PM Subject: [WDDM] Re :[WDDM] What is the AIM of WDDM? Mr. Jiri Polak,You have said that - "....it is extremely difficult for DD organisations to compete with established parties which have created all sorts of obstacles to prevent competition." Setting up a True Democracy Platform (web-based to start with) would bypass the political parties and present an alternative method for the people to put up candidates for elections in an organized way. In effect it would be splicing open the party-oriented election system and getting into the parliament using the existing electoral procedures. Kindly go through the forum discussion on 'True Democracy web platform", if you haven't done fully: http://www.world-wide-democracy.net/forum/read.php?23,641,641#msg-641There should be no legal difficulty either, since it would only be a association of people promoting a particular idea. It would be non-violent and perfectly constitutional.The only difficulty could be the cost to set up the global website. If many people are convinced, then raising resource for it should be possible. I feel that there are a large number of people who would like the system to be freed from the clutches of political parties, presently considered as a necessary evil for electoral purpose.Sincerely,Vijayaraghavan POn Tue, 28 Apr 2009 09:39:06 0200 wddm@world-wide-democracy.net wroteDear Mr.Padmanabha,both strategies (extraparliamentary pressure and efforts to reach parliament using existing procedures) can and should be used at the same time. But it is extremely difficult for DD organisations to compete with established parties which have created all sorts of obstacles to prevent competition. The current systems are illegal and criminal because they have been put in place without any mandate from the citizens. Therefore it is legitimate to fight against them by any means except to physically hurt people. Should we rely on parliamentary procedures only, we could wait hundred years. Besides, to only participate in elections means legitimizing the existing oligarchic systems. If "all power comes from the people" as the myth says, then the people is free to do anything to change the system. The only problem is to mobilize "ordinary people" and make them stop behaving like sheep.Sincerely, Jiri Polak----- Original Message ----- From: Vijayaraghavan Padmanabhan To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 7:31 PMSubject: [WDDM] Re :[WDDM] What is the AIM of WDDM?Mr. Jiri Polak,You have mentioned in your reply while describing the actions needed to enforce a referendum - "Try to put a DD person into Parliament...". This, I feel, should be the central aim. If a strategy is devised to achieve this then all other things like - attracting the man on the street and enforcing a referendum for making amends to the constitution become easier. If this core strategy is not there then it is difficult to convince people about the practicability of other actions.This is why I feel that a 'True Democracy web platform' should first be set up that will lead on to putting DD persons into the parliament by directly competing with political parties during elections.Vijayaraghavan POn Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:54:34 0200 wddm@world-wide-democracy.net wroteHello,there are many good ideas on the Forum, but how to realize them? In Czech Republic, in theory, we have a clear strategy: The basic principle is that it is the people, not party politicians, who alone are entitled to write and adopt a Constitution establishing a political system. If you let party politicians to do that - as the case has been everywhere - they will put in place a Constitution giving all power to political parties. We - a few independent citizens - have proposed and published a Citizens´ Constitution by amending the existing one which we consider as only provisional. The next step should be to enforce a referendum on this proposal. If successful, the referendum would put in place a new Constitution and a new political system. Such a system would probably contain many elements proposed in the WWDN Forum. How to enforce a referendum? Seek publicity by any non violent means; organize demonstrations, e.g. marches on the Parliament like they do in Poland; a symbolic defenestration and the like. Try to put a DD person into Parliament, get the support of some widely known persons etc. The feasibilyty of such a strategy will obviously depend on the degree of "shakeability" of the man-in-the-street. Maybe people will remain passive and apathetic. In such a situation, we can only hope for a global catastrophy. George Sagi has written a visionary book called "Only from the Ruins". Maybe this will be the only way. But let´s try to attempt something less drastical first!Jiri Polak----- Original Message ----- From: Vijayaraghavan Padmanabhan To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 1:26 PMSubject: [WDDM] Re :[WDDM] What is the AIM of WDDM?Bruce,I wonder how you equated True Democracy with - "No president, No prime minister etc. Just the people making decisions...". I think you have the 'anarchist' conception of democracy in mind.We have discussed a lot about True Democracy on the Forum. I am giving a link that explains how the concept of True Democracy is in tune with the existing kind of representative democracy. It also explains how the tools of I&R can be integrated into the process of governance: http://www.world-wide-democracy.net/forum/read.php?23,641,641#msg-641First we should get there into the corridors of government. This can be done from the grass roots and this movement can do it provided it is not preoccupied with I&R only.Vijayaraghavan PadmanabhanOn Sun, 26 Apr 2009 15:00:46 -0500 wddm@world-wide-democracy.net wroteDirect DemocracyIt isdifficult to go in two directions at once. I bring these questions up so we maydiscuss it a bit. Of course this is my opinion; I am looking for moreinformation. There seemto be two popular modes of DD. One beggars the people to make all decisions. Somecall this â%u20AC%u0153True Democracyâ%u20AC? or other term. This model usually eliminates governmentas we know it. No Presidents, Prime Ministers, Senate, Congress, Parliamentjust the people making decisions. There is a void however, how would thedecisions be carried out? How would they be evaluated and who wouldadministrate the financing? There would have to be some huge administrativemechanism to accomplish the decisions of the people. How would this besupervised?Anotherquestion is who would be voting? Would the elite be the majority participatingin these elections? Would minorities simply be discounted?My questionsto WDDM is; does WDDM want to support this type of â%u20AC%u0153True Democracyâ%u20AC? at thistime? Have we progressed to the point we could do so?The presentrepresentative system has rules and constitutional requirements about equalrights, Liberty, minority rights etc. This system built over many years now hassome safe guards. However there are times this system makes decisions which arecontrary to the majority of the people.The second methodis the â%u20AC%u0153Swiss modelâ%u20AC? which retains the â%u20AC%u0153Representative Systemâ%u20AC? but addsInitiative and Binding Referendum. This system oversees the Representatives andprovides the people the tools to directly alter or stop any and all legislationthe people disagree with. With this oversight, the Representatives are morecautious in their decisions, knowing the people can change the decisions aswell as recall the Representative.Indeed, if thepeople wanted to eliminate Representative Government, they could build thenecessary administrative mechanism; develop rules, laws and constitutionalrequirements necessary to accomplish this using the Swiss model. Once thenecessary systems were functioning, the people could use the Swiss System andsimply pass an Initiative implementing the new way. I think WDDM needs to decide specifically what itsAIM is and how to carry it out. I ask that we deliberate the above questionswith much discussion. What do you think?Kind Regards, BruceBruce EggumGresham Wisconsin, USAhttp://www.doinggovernment.com/Check out my Blog toohttp://bruceeggum.blogster.com/http://usinitiative.com vote
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