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01961: Re: [WDDM] The Venus Project

From: Antonio Rossin <rossin(at)tin.it>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 00:48:56 +0200
Subject: Re: [WDDM] The Venus Project

Thank you, Jim.

But I'm curious, why did you address "Antonio" only
and not "all"? Please explain, thanks twice...

cheers,

antonio


Annette and Martin ha scritto:
Antonio, have you heard of The Venus Project,only come accross this
recently,one of their goals is to build a world without the need for
money.

Below is off the website.

The Venus Project presents a bold, new direction for humanity that
entails nothing less than the total redesign of our culture. There are
many people today who are concerned with the serious problems that
face our modern society: unemployment, violent crime, replacement of
humans by technology, over-population and a decline in the Earth's
ecosystems. As you will see, The Venus Project is dedicated to
confronting all of these problems by actively engaging in the
research, development, and application of workable solutions. Through
the use of innovative approaches to social awareness, educational
incentives, and the consistent application of the best that science
and technology can offer directly to the social system, The Venus
Project offers a comprehensive plan for social reclamation in which
human beings, technology, and nature will be able to coexist in a
long-term, sustainable state of dynamic equilibrium.

The plans for the Venus Project offer society a broader spectrum of
choices based on the scientific possibilities inherent in current
technology and direct that knowledge toward a new era of peace and
sustainability for all cultures. Through the implementation of a
resource-based economy, and a multitude of innovative and
environmentally friendly technologies directly applied to the social
system, The Venus Project proposals will dramatically reduce crime,
poverty, hunger, homelessness, and many other pressing problems that
are common throughout the world today.

One of the cornerstones of the organization's findings is the fact
that many of the dysfunctional behaviors of today's society stem
directly from the dehumanizing environment inherent in the existing
monetary system. Moreover, the currently utilized random
implementation of automation and other technologies have resulted in a
fragmented, self-defeating trend occurring throughout the
manufacturing and high-tech sectors of today's global economy--namely
the technological replacement of human labor by machines. The Venus
Project proposes a social system in which automation and technology
would be intelligently applied and integrated into an overall social
design where the primary function would be to maximize the quality of
life rather than profits. This project also introduces a set of
workable and acceptable human values that are more appropriate and in
balance with our present state of technology.

http://www.thevenusproject.com/

Some very interesting times in the financial systems.
All the best,
Martin Jackson

----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio Rossin" <rossin(at)tin.it>
To: <wddm@world-wide-democracy.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [WDDM] WDDM Charter and up-coming meeting


Bruce,

Let's suppose, WDDM stands for Worldwide Direct Democracy Movement,
not for Inner Direct Democratic Bureaucracy Group.

Thanks to Mirek, WDDM is already functioning very well as a reference
web
site for Democracy, as far as I can see -- and has nothing to decide
instead of ,
and in behalf of, the people : to wit, upon the people, top-down.


Wishing you serendipity, best regards

antonio






Bruce Eggum ha scritto:
Dear Tonini,

You are right that "Charter coming from the top does not serve the
purpose of establishing DD".
That is why "the people" of a community or group must establish the
Charter for their community or group.

That is why WDDM has always encouraged everyone to meet locally and
advocate that some form of I&BR be established to begin whatever
form of DD the local people choose.

WDDM, which is a community, must establish methods for WDDM to
function. We need to discuss how we can implement our goal of
education and initiation of Direct Democracy throughout the world.
So this WDDM community must have it's own WDDM Charter which
provides a way for WDDM to make decisions, only about WDDM and for
WDDM. The people of WDDM are the members and are referred to as the
"bottom" of WDDM and the people making decisions are the "Top". In
order for the members to have input, a fair method must be created
to discuss, initiate petitions, and finally decide on the matter
[for WDDM]. This function is missing in WDDM and since no decision
is taken, endless bickering continues.

This may be a bit of a lesson, without established accepted
procedure no community could unite in a decision or function. The
first step in a meeting is to call to order and decide how to
function. Usually the group appoints one to function as chairperson
who recognises who will speak so all dont speak at once. Often a
person keeps notes. These are basic but necessary "rules"
established by the group to function. This is what a WDDM Charter
is, and we have no functioning WDDM Charter. We do not want to make
a Charter for the world, or for your government. We simply want to
establish a method for WDDM to function.

Unfortunately Antonio has never grasped this concept and continues
to think we are trying to make a Charter for the world which is a
bit grandiose in the least.

I hope this clarifys a bit. The world is one big argument. If we
want to make resolution to these arguments, we need "rules of
engagement" [discussion] and procedures to make decisions,
[Initiative and referendum].

Please visit the WDDM website. The FORUM provides a proper platform
for discussion, initiative and decision. Unfortunately it is not
utilized enough. As young people join I hope it will be used more.
http://www.world-wide-democracy.net/

Thank you for joining us and contributing to our discussion.

Bruce

<http://www.world-wide-democracy.net/>
Bruce Eggum
Gresham Wisconsin, USA
http://www.doinggovernment.com/
Check out my Blog too
http://bruceeggum.blogster.com/
http://usinitiative.com
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 2:57 PM, <tobuz> wrote:

Hi everybody,
let me say first of all that I am surprised in reading some
offending words in this discussion.
Direct Democracy is based on the respect for all opinions.

Coming to the matter uner discussion :
I believe Antonio is right if he thinks that a Charter coming from
the top does not serve the purpose of establishing DD.
The power of political parties and their masters (stock exchange
financiers) will never permit this to happen.
Thus, in my opinion, DD can be established only proceeding from
the bottom up.
In my opinion a Charter can serve in having DD managed after being
accepted as the ruling procedure.
To me the magic word is education, in the first instance from
political movements ( DD movements ) explaining the concept of DD
to the citizens and convincing them to make a change in the
procedure to rule the nation.
When this is done, all the rest will follow.

We at Democrazia Federale are doing just this, opening up DD
groups all over our country and spreading the idea.
Have a good night
Federico Tonini

---------- Initial Header -----------

>From : Antonio Rossin
To : wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Cc :
Date : Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:34:05 +0200
Subject : Re: [WDDM] WDDM Charter and up-coming meeting


Subsequently, these simpletons present the problem of
the worldwide lack of Direct Democracy as if it were a lack of a
fitter DD charter exclusively.
Even worse, by doing so they do deviate the people's
attention from what the people themselves could do directly and
responsibly by their own, to what the leaders like to point out to
them as a charter to follow.
......
Another good example of DD at work, IMHO, it is the Homeschooling
initiative mostly in the U.S.
.....
To summarize, the success of Democracy -- and of every similar
problem involving people as a whole -- foresees two intervention
levels:
Level One:
interventions on the offering of Democracy, like DD charters,
DD laws, DD models etc. Let's call this, in short, "top-down"
Level Two:
interventions to increase the people's overall demand of a
democratic social arrangement.
Plainly, this kind of demand is a matter of basic education
family education) growing it from bottom up.
***************

Well now, to stick to te point: Direct Democracy, in everybody's
experience, is unlikely to succeed if we were unable to make these
two intervention levels match together.
.......

"The officer's terms were due for new election and discussion
about a definition of Direct Democracy caused much confusion in
the WDDM group meeting the last couple years."
........
I couldn't resist.
The confusion in the WDDM group was due to those guys (with Bruce
as their champion) who managed to fix the "lack of Democracy"
problem by being active at 'Level One' exclusively -- i.e., by
managing to exclude the 'Level Two' issues away from the WDDM
debate up to now.


Jim Powell wrote:
Hi All,
I have to respond to Antonio
Bruce has put much effort into the new charter.
I believe that this is a model that can be used as a reference for
communities to develop DD.
It is obvious Antonio, that this is developed in WDDM.




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