| From: | Antonio Rossin <rossin(at)tin.it> |
|---|---|
| Date: | Thu, 18 Sep 2008 00:32:32 +0200 |
| Subject: | Re: [WDDM] WDDM Charter and up-coming meeting |
Dear Tonini,
You are right that "Charter coming from the top does not serve the
purpose of establishing DD".
That is why "the people" of a community or group must establish the
Charter for their community or group.
That is why WDDM has always encouraged everyone to meet locally and
advocate that some form of I&BR be established to begin whatever form
of DD the local people choose.
WDDM, which is a community, must establish methods for WDDM to
function. We need to discuss how we can implement our goal of
education and initiation of Direct Democracy throughout the world. So
this WDDM community must have it's own WDDM Charter which provides a
way for WDDM to make decisions, only about WDDM and for WDDM. The
people of WDDM are the members and are referred to as the "bottom" of
WDDM and the people making decisions are the "Top". In order for the
members to have input, a fair method must be created to discuss,
initiate petitions, and finally decide on the matter [for WDDM]. This
function is missing in WDDM and since no decision is taken, endless
bickering continues.
This may be a bit of a lesson, without established accepted procedure
no community could unite in a decision or function. The first step in
a meeting is to call to order and decide how to function. Usually the
group appoints one to function as chairperson who recognises who will
speak so all dont speak at once. Often a person keeps notes. These are
basic but necessary "rules" established by the group to function. This
is what a WDDM Charter is, and we have no functioning WDDM Charter. We
do not want to make a Charter for the world, or for your government.
We simply want to establish a method for WDDM to function.
Unfortunately Antonio has never grasped this concept and continues to
think we are trying to make a Charter for the world which is a bit
grandiose in the least.
I hope this clarifys a bit. The world is one big argument. If we want
to make resolution to these arguments, we need "rules of engagement"
[discussion] and procedures to make decisions, [Initiative and
referendum].
Please visit the WDDM website. The FORUM provides a proper platform
for discussion, initiative and decision. Unfortunately it is not
utilized enough. As young people join I hope it will be used more.
http://www.world-wide-democracy.net/
Thank you for joining us and contributing to our discussion.
Bruce
<http://www.world-wide-democracy.net/>
Bruce Eggum
Gresham Wisconsin, USA
http://www.doinggovernment.com/
Check out my Blog too
http://bruceeggum.blogster.com/
http://usinitiative.com
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 2:57 PM, <tobuz> wrote:
Hi everybody,
let me say first of all that I am surprised in reading some
offending words in this discussion.
Direct Democracy is based on the respect for all opinions.
Coming to the matter uner discussion :
I believe Antonio is right if he thinks that a Charter coming from
the top does not serve the purpose of establishing DD.
The power of political parties and their masters (stock exchange
financiers) will never permit this to happen.
Thus, in my opinion, DD can be established only proceeding from
the bottom up.
In my opinion a Charter can serve in having DD managed after being
accepted as the ruling procedure.
To me the magic word is education, in the first instance from
political movements ( DD movements ) explaining the concept of DD
to the citizens and convincing them to make a change in the
procedure to rule the nation.
When this is done, all the rest will follow.
We at Democrazia Federale are doing just this, opening up DD
groups all over our country and spreading the idea.
Have a good night
Federico Tonini
---------- Initial Header -----------
>From : Antonio Rossin
To : wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Cc :
Date : Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:34:05 +0200
Subject : Re: [WDDM] WDDM Charter and up-coming meeting
Subsequently, these simpletons present the problem of
the worldwide lack of Direct Democracy as if it were a lack of a
fitter DD charter exclusively.
Even worse, by doing so they do deviate the people's
attention from what the people themselves could do directly and
responsibly by their own, to what the leaders like to point out to
them as a charter to follow.
......
Another good example of DD at work, IMHO, it is the Homeschooling
initiative mostly in the U.S.
.....
To summarize, the success of Democracy -- and of every similar
problem involving people as a whole -- foresees two intervention
levels:
Level One:
interventions on the offering of Democracy, like DD charters,
DD laws, DD models etc. Let's call this, in short, "top-down"
Level Two:
interventions to increase the people's overall demand of a
democratic social arrangement.
Plainly, this kind of demand is a matter of basic education
family education) growing it from bottom up.
***************
Well now, to stick to te point: Direct Democracy, in everybody's
experience, is unlikely to succeed if we were unable to make these
two intervention levels match together.
.......
"The officer's terms were due for new election and discussion
about a definition of Direct Democracy caused much confusion in
the WDDM group meeting the last couple years."
........
I couldn't resist.
The confusion in the WDDM group was due to those guys (with Bruce
as their champion) who managed to fix the "lack of Democracy"
problem by being active at 'Level One' exclusively -- i.e., by
managing to exclude the 'Level Two' issues away from the WDDM
debate up to now.
Jim Powell wrote:
Hi All,
I have to respond to Antonio
Bruce has put much effort into the new charter.
I believe that this is a model that can be used as a reference for
communities to develop DD.
It is obvious Antonio, that this is developed in WDDM.