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01729: Re: [WDDM] Tibet and buddhism]

From: lpc1998 <lpc1998(at)lpc1998.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 02:26:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Tibet and buddhism]

One more story about CIA's involvement in Tibet:


".... a political kiss of death for the Tibetans, .."


"..... Chinese spies in Lhasa followed his (Frank Bessac's) every move. Six weeks after he left Tibet, with the governments' official written request for covert military aid in hand, that document was encrypted and transmitted back to Washington where it landed on the desk of Dean Rusk, at the State Department. Weeks later the CIA began to air drop small amounts of military aid into Tibet. Weeks after that China invaded, claiming it did so to halt 'Imperialist Plots'. America publicly denied any covert US involvement as 'Communist Propaganda'. Tibet had to lie about these events, to protect America. LIFE Magazine published a sanitized version of the trek across Tibet as, This Was the Tragic Trek to Tragedy."


http://www.intotibet.info/aboutthebook.html


Best Regards,
Eric Lim



Giorgio Menon <giorgio.menon(at)pd.infn.it> wrote:
Dear Mirek,
the two points you have raised (independence and KI activists) are
interconnected. Always ready to sustain the independence to Kosovo or
Tibet for economical/political reasons, the political sect refuses to
accept independence of Northen Italy or any other region of the world
that may cut the economical advantages to the ruling class. Canada is no
exception. In Tibet there are even stronger geopolitical interests.
Exactly like in Iraq, the USA interference has been very strong there.
It's not known that the elder brother of the Dalai Lama was a CIA agent:
you'll never hear it on the news. Do a google search for "CIA Tibet" and
the first site is this:
http://www.takhli.org/rjw/tibet.htm
"After he became CIA
director in 1953, Allen Dulles oversaw the creation of an audacious covert
program involving tens of thousands of Tibetan freedom fighters who fought
courageously against China's People's Liberation Army in a decade-long
struggle for independence.
A constant flow of money and weapons had been sent to Tibetan "freedom
fighters" previously trained in the CIA base Camp Hale (Colorado). The CIA
trainees were then flown back to base camps in Nepal, and infiltrated
back into Tibet.
But by far the most important CIA asset was an agent named Gyalo Thondup,
elder brother to the Dalai Lama. Although he has remained in his brother's
shadow, Thondup's role in Tibet's fight for freedom is unsurpassed. He was
vital not only to CIA paramilitary operations in Tibet, but to the
Dalai
Lama's safe flight into exile. "
"When you're summing up the Tibetan operation," one of Gyalo Thondup's
former case officers says, "there are three phases. Intelligence.
Paramilitary. Political action."

Now is this too different from what the Chinese government says? I'm not
one of their fans, yet i must admit that in this recent story they seem
to be closer to the truth of facts than the Tibetan buddhists.
More on political games: Major William Corson, an intelligence aide to
President Eisenhower claims that India's decision to give "political
asylum" to the Dalai Lama was in return for US assistance to its nuclear
weapons programme. He says Pandit Nehru had it conveyed to President
Eisenhower that "if India was to accept the Dalai Lama, the US would
have to help New Delhi develop nuclear weapons."

According to Corson, "Nehru was a notorious hard bargainer and the
favour Eisenhower was asking carried great risks to India." So, apart
from providing India a nuclear reactor under the atoms for peace
programme, the US agreed to accept 400 Indian students in American
Universities, who eventually became the corps of bomb makers in India.

He went into great detail about the escape of the Dalai Lama to India as
part of the deal.

Please compare this atomic deal with the never found WMD that were the
"true" cause of Iraq's invasion.


Regards

Giorgio


M. Kolar wrote:

> Hello!
>
> Here I am forwarding below for your consideration a view on Tibet from
> an angle that has been so far completely missing from your reporting,
> and most probably from reporting of most other media around here.
>
> I myself am not sure where the truth is (i.e., where the majority of
> Tibetans really stands), and have no way to verify competing claims.
> Chinese government is definitely very stupid when it managed to drive
> the people of Tibet to riots. Tibetans definitely deserve any degree
> of autonomy or independence they want to have.
> However, it would be very interesting to know what is the real
> situation of various groups of Tibetans. Is the life of majority of
> them (in the light of claims below of a large number of them being
> enslaved or in serfdom under the old theocratic rule of Dalai Lama)
> really worse than it was then?
>
> Do you have recourses to do a more thorough research? Who is for
> example feeding at present the tens of thousand of absolutely
> unproductive monks in the monasteries of Tibet, who do not contribute
> anything useful to the society. The Chinese communists must surely
> consider them mere economic parasites, but they have nevertheless not
> closed the monasteries, and allowed them to function. I suspect that
> they even feed them and maintain their monasteries (definitely also as
> tourist attractions) because these monasteries (hopefully) lost their
> slaves and serfs who fed them in old times. Isn't that an indication
> that they respect the Tibetan tradition at least a little bit?
>
> Can you ask Dalai Lama or some other officials from his government in
> exile during your next interview with them what is their official
> position toward the past slavery, and what are their plans for the
> future in this respect if they are allowed to return to rule the
> Tibet. Will they also renew this old cultural tradition of slavery?
>
> Isn't there some (a lot of) hypocrisy in the North American media? Is
> there for example proportionality between the amount of time devoted
> to reporting on the hardship of Iraqis, hundreds of thousands of whom
> were killed in the past five years for no good reason due to the
> actions of our closest ally, and reporting on Tibet? Should we not at
> first put order in our own house? For example, we have six fresh
> prisoners of conscience in Canada, see
> http://understory.ran.org/2008/03/20/indigenous-prisoners-of-conscience/
> . At least Globe and Mail wrote about it today, but I have not yet
> noticed anything about it from the CBC (for which I have otherwise
> high respect).
>
> Sincerely,
> Miroslav Kolar
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [WDDM] Tibet and buddhism
> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:54:33 +0100
> From: Giorgio Menon <GIORGIO.MENON(at)PD.INFN.IT>
> To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
>
>
>
> Recent riots in Lhasa has made people think that Chinese are far worse
> than Tibet's former ruler: buddhist monks and their chief, the Dalai
> Lama.
>
> "Journeying through Tibet in the 1960s, Stuart and Roma Gelder
> interviewed a former serf, Tsereh Wang Tuei, who had stolen two sheep
> belonging to a monastery. For this he had both his eyes gouged out and
> his hand mutilated beyond use. He explains that he no longer is a
> Buddhist: “When a holy lama told them to blind me I thought there was
> no good in religion.” Since it was against Buddhist teachings to take
> human life, some offenders were severely lashed and then “left to God”
> in the freezing night to die. “The parallels between Tibet and
> medieval Europe are striking,” concludes Tom Grunfeld in his book on
> Tibet.
> Earlier visitors to Tibet commented on the theocratic despotism. In
> 1895, an Englishman, Dr. A. L. Waddell, wrote that the populace was
> under the “intolerable tyranny of monks” and the devil superstitions
> they had fashioned to terrorize the people. In 1904 Perceval Landon
> described the Dalai Lama’s rule as “an engine of oppression.” At about
> that time, another English traveler, Captain W.F.T. O’Connor, observed
> that “the great landowners and the priests… exercise each in their own
> dominion a despotic power from which there is no appeal,” while the
> people are “oppressed by the most monstrous growth of monasticism and
> priest-craft.” Tibetan rulers “invented degrading legends and
> stimulated a spirit of superstition” among the common people.
> As much as we might wish otherwise, feudal theocratic Tibet was a far
> cry from the romanticized Shangri La so enthusiastically nurtured by
> Buddhism’s western proselytes.
> The theocracy’s religious teachings buttressed its class order. The
> poor and afflicted were taught that they had brought their troubles
> upon themselves because of their wicked ways in previous lives. Hence
> they had to accept the misery of their present existence as a karmic
> atonement and in anticipation that their lot would improve in their
> next lifetime. The rich and powerful treated their good fortune as a
> reward for, and tangible evidence of, virtue in past and present lives.
> Drepung monastery was one of the biggest landowners in the world, with
> its 185 manors, 25,000 serfs, 300 great pastures, and 16,000 herdsmen.
> The wealth of the monasteries rested in the hands of small numbers of
> high-ranking lamas. Most ordinary monks lived modestly and had no
> direct access to great wealth. The Dalai Lama himself “lived richly in
> the 1000-room, 14-story Potala Palace.”
>
> http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html
>
> http://www.jstor.org/view/03057410/ap020074/02a00080/0
>
> Before liberation Tibet was hell on earth where labouring people
> suffered for centuries under the darkest and most reactonary
> serfdom...the serfs were treated as chattels and were in conditions of
> hereditary servitude.
> Physical mutilations did occur, and possibly even the burying of
> children. Evidence was found by Sir Charles Bell (Tibet Past and
> Present, 1929). He reported that a stupa being used as a boundary
> marker between Tibet and Bhutan contained an urn which houses the
> blood and bodies of an 8-year-old girl and boy who had been slain for
> the purpose (pg 80)
>
> 'Slaves were sometimes stolen, when small children, from their
> parents. Or the father and mother, being too poor to support their
> child, would sell it to a man, who paid them _sho-ring_, "price of
> mother's milk," brought up the child and kept it, or sold it, as a
> slave. These children come mostly from south-eastern Tibet and the
> territories of the wild tribes who dwell between Tibet and Assam.'
> [Bell24]
>
> The Dalai Lama and his supporters including groups such as Amnesty
> International have yet to make a clean recognition of the fact of
> slavery in Tibet. We fear that if he and his followers returned to
> power, they would restore slave practices in the guise of Buddhist
> mumbo-jumbo.
>
> http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/faq/tibet.html
>
> Anna Louise Strong :"When the serfs stood up in Tibet"
>
> http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/countries/china/whenserfsstoodupintibet.pdf
>
>
> You might then think that buddhism in Mongolia is somewhat different
> from Tibet. Not so.
> strong monastic corporations preserved
> the local system of social and economic
> redistribution for centuries. In addition
> the monasteries held a monopoly
> on education. In short, any significant
> event in the life of a Mongolian always
> involved the presence of a lama.
> At the beginning of the twentieth century,
> Outer Mongolia was associated
> with the head of its Buddhist sangha and
> Shabinar, Bogdo-Gegen. The eighth
> Bogdo-Gegen, Jebtsundamba Khutagt,
> the Living Buddha, was a charismatic
> political leader, who was highly popular
> with the Mongols. As a result of the
> national revolution against the Qing rule
> in 1911 he became the first and last theocratic
> monarch of Mongolia.
>
> In 1924 he died with syphilis. Too much praying maybe? Wrong Mandala?
>
> http://www.iias.nl/iiasn/31/IIASN31_24.pdf
>
>> From the shamans' viewpoint buddhism has been utterly cruel.
>
> I've had the chance to directly speak to one of them (she recently
> passed away) and she confirmed all the stories i read and i'm telling
> you.
>
> Many people were forced to serve as bondsmen to the monasteries. Bogdo
> Gegen had 22,000 monks and 28,000 bondsmen. There were many complaints
> of children being abused by monks. The monks themselves spread
> syphilis all over the countryside.
> _*Shamans were killed, murdered, burnt with dog droppings, and
> subjected to many fines paid in livestock. Between the 1860’s and
> 1904, there were three mass burnings at campfires around Horchin, at
> which it was said, “The ones who have real powers will emerge
> unscathed, but the remainders shall die.”*_
>
> http://www.tengerism.org/lamaism.html
>
> What concerns me is using recent riots in Lhasa as proof of how evil
> the Chinese government is compared to peaceful buddhism that managed
> to make Tibetans happy for centuries. Indecent lies! Buddhism is no
> better than any other monoteistic religion, and has been used for
> centuries to ensure economical advantages to the elites via the
> buddhist doctrine and buddhist tortures.
>
> Regards
>
> Giorgio
>
> PS I'm NOT a pro China activist.....
>
>
>
>


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