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01709: Re: [WDDM] Getting the whole picture about DD

From: Antonio Rossin <rossin(at)tin.it>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 17:51:01 +0100
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Getting the whole picture about DD

Georges,

There are some flaws about your three functions (+1) below:

1. Supporting individual proposals is at powerholders' hands, who
usually support and select the proposals that are in support to just
themselves.

2. Consensus building is a matter of top-down propaganda leading
to the bandwagon machinery among suggestible people.

3. Decisions that are run accordingly can even be correct formally,
but top-down orchestrated substantially by the 1. powerholders.

+1. as for the Kibbutz as a basic point to build up a nation, let me
CC your suggestion to Akiva Orr (see: http://www.akiorrbooks.org )
who is very likely to witness this matter directly. Hi, Aki


Regards, have a good Easter

antonio


Georges Metanomski wrote:
--- Antonio Rossin <rossin(at)tin.it> wrote:


No, Georges.

(Direct) Democracy does not stand in what is dropped
top-down
to people, be it the Holy Scriptures.

Democracy stands in people becoming capable of
approaching
any "truth", the scientific ones included, from
bottom-up, indeed,
responsibly and critically, to wit, dialectically.

Those self-claiming democracy-lovers who do not
understand the
difference, even though they are valuable
scientists, are a damage
to (direct) Democracy.

===============
"Democracy" stands for a governance system and not
for approaching any 'truth's", whatever it may mean,
from "bottom-up". Voting bottom-up (ir)responsibly
(un)critically and ignorantly for string theory
against General Relativity would not be democratic
but idiotic.

The 3 Functions of DD:

1.Initiative (supporting individual proposals)
2.Debate (consensus building)
3.Decision (upon a consensus threshold; no snapshot
vote)

support exactly the bottom-up people's governance.

Struggle to promote and implement this structure
is necessarily in the hands of some activist groups,
as at the outset people ignore it. Thus the activists
of Ha Shomer Ha Zair (HSHZ) battled for over 50 years
to implement first DD Kibbutzim (first ones in Poland,

including the one leading the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising).


HSHZ limited its action to informing, motivating and
assisting motivated people to create DD Kibbutzim
self-governed with the 3 DD functions. Once a Kibbutz
created, HSHZ let it go by itself and stayed away,
unless asked for technical assistance.

We have a working and successful example and all I
suggest is to walk in the steps of HSHZ, adjusted
of course for the difference of context. Thus, to
start by considering these adjustments, especially
for the size moved from a Kibbutz to a nation.

Georges.
==================


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