Re: [WDDM] Simpol and True Democracy

[Antonio Rossin <rossin(at)tin.it>]

Dear PVR,

It seems to me, your model meets two main prerequisites
of democracy:

1.  Policies must be territory-linked, thus be originated
     bottom-up locally;

2.  People must awarely question their officials and-or
      representatives, and wield the control power over them.

Obviously, the people shall have a devoted place where they
can express themselves.  WDDM could provide this place.
Accordingly, I will be glad to share-in with my membership fee.

Thanks,

antonio


Vijayaraghavan Padmanabhan ha scritto:
> Dear Antonio and all,
> I have indicated in the course of several of my posts how
> a conscience-based political system can be ushered in.
> In fact WDDM has helped in improvising the original plan
> I have mentioned in my blog:
> http://musingsonpartylessdemocracy.blogspot.com .
> But let me update and summarize here what I have in mind:
>
> 1) The model of Roy Baine's www.myverdict.net is a good
> starting point. He has painstakingly collected names of about
> 140 countries, the primary divisions (states) of each of these
> countries and the secondary divisions of each of these primary
> divisions. Any person on earth belonging to one of these
> localities can thus express himself regarding matters concerning
> his/her area. I would suggest that we prepare a similar list but
> the names should be that of the constituencies at the state,
> district and sub-district levels so that the views expressed by
> voters of a particular constituency can consolidate and pave
> the way for action at the local level, either directly or through
> pressure exerted on the elected representative of that constituency
> (in terms of the prospects of him getting reelected or recalled if
> such a law is eventually passed). An example of exerting pressure
> of similar nature being already tried is given in the following link:
> http://www.alliance21.org/2003/article.php3?id_article=2455
>
> Thus WDDM can be a platform for people to make their voice
> heard.  The members who register themselves at WDDM can
> express on what they they would like to see happening with
> respect to their locality/state/nation on issues that concern them.
> Similarly they can express dissatisfaction on issues that affect them.
> Thus the individual's conscience is made the centre of all activity
> and not the views of a small minority belonging to the political
> or other elite classes.
>
> 2) In order to add weightage to the views of the people it should
> be made clear that if the members of a particular area feel that the
> elected representatives are failing in their task, then the voters
> would join together in the next ensuing election to campaign for
> the candidate (either an independent or belonging to a political
> party that believes in conscience-based governance) whom they
> believe would seriously take note of the people's views expressed
> on the WDDM (and other such platforms).
>
> 3) Eventually the above steps can lead to a situation where
> 'conscience-based governance' through 'partyless mechanism
> within the elected house' can be made into a law if the people
> so desire. The political parties would still exist but would be
> confined to promoting their particular ideology outside the
> elected house, having no role in actual governance.
>
> The above step wise approach would allow freedom of
> thought to the people and would allow increasing degree
> of activism towards truer democracy depending on the
> need of the locality and the way the political parties respond
> to the challenge. Political parties and independent politicians
> would find that getting themselves registered at the WDDM
> and adopting the principle of 'conscience-based governance'
> would be advantageous to them. NGOs fighting for various
> social causes would find that supporting the WDDM by
> registering themselves in it would be of great help in
> promoting their respective causes.
>
> The global approach of WDDM would be an advantage
> since the possible down-side of adopting 'conscience-based
> governance' to individual national economies in terms of
> losing competitiveness would be balanced by similar changes
> occurring everywhere. The global approach naturally would
> add to the appeal and credibility of 'conscience-based
> governance' to the common man.
>
> There is vast scope of further refinement of the above
> proposal. I&R Tools like Enitiative can be integrated to
> facilitate deliberation and decision making by the people.
>
> I will post this under the proposal forum for what it is worth.
>
> PVR
>
>
>
> On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 Antonio Rossin wrote :
> > Vijayaraghavan Padmanabhan ha scritto:
> > > Dear Antonio and all,
> > > I have also adopted Simpol even before becoming a member of WDDM.
> > > The only problem I have with Simpol is that it deals with the problem of
> > > climate change (as well as others) at the 'tip of the ice-berg'
> level, whereas
> > > the fundamental reason for these problems to have occurred in the first
> > > place (being the lack of true democracy) is ignored. I had a discussion
> > > with John Bunzl regarding this and he feels that Simpol cannot deal with
> > > this issue though there could be synergism with a organization that
> deals
> > > with it.
> >
> > Dear PVR
> >
> > I also had discussion with JB regarding the roots for these problems,
> that
> > are the lack of true democracy.  He seems like disliking such deepenings.
> > My opinion is, his is a shyness in facing the representative
> establishment,
> > as if, to Simpol to be up, no change of the current (undemocratic) system
> > were necessary, and the attempts towards increasing people's democratic
> > awareness were all disturbing noises, that might slow -- if not stop
> -- the
> > course of SP.  In one only word, JB's Simpol is a totalitarian project.
> >
> > Which totalitarian attitude could be successful, at least
> theoretically. Who
> > knows?  Only the time passing can tell us whether JB is right or wrong.
> > In the meantime, I support him honestly and reasonably.
> > JB is doing his play, which is fair play: if there were synergy, he
> thanks.
> > As for democratic co-operation, that is another kettle of fish.
> >
> > > Several people and organizations, including the members of the WDDM,
> > > have made worthwhile suggestions for ushering in True Democracy.
> > > What is needed now is to have an open mind and allow things to
> crystallize
> > > into an effective action plan.
> >
> >
> > Agreed. Yet there are WDDM members whose action plan is turning WDDM
> into a
> > bureaucratic cage of mandatory democratic rules, as if the target --
> the people --
> > were eager of being caught inside. Which ushering is not taken for
> granted,
> > rather the contrary, if the people were still lacking of  the needed
> 'conscience'.
> > > The problem with the current DD methods is that they depend on the
> > > government of the day to adopt them.  On the other hand we need to be
> > > more pro-active like Simpol and visualize a system where people, using
> > > their constitutional right to vote, can force governments to adopt truer
> > > democracy methods.  The 'conscience-based' political system, which I
> > > have been suggesting, fulfils this need.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > PVR
> > Please give me (again?) the link of your document - proposal.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > antonio
> >
> > > On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 Antonio Rossin wrote :
> > > > Hi PVR,
> > > >
> > > > I totally agree on your point of view.  This is why I've become a
> > > > Simpol adopter, and a supporter of people's greatest sharing-in to
> > > > democracy.
> > > >
> > > > About Simpol:  www.simpol.org .
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > antonio
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Vijayaraghavan Padmanabhan ha scritto:
> > > > > Dear Antonio and Giorgio,
> > > > > The exchanges between you have been interesting to read.  Basically
> > > > > the present situation of excessive use of world's oil resources
> and the
> > > > > consequent global warming reaching alarming proportions, can be
> > > > > controlled - provided if we understand what propels such a process.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is the run away success of business establishments in the present
> > > > > day world aided by a faulty political system that is responsible. The
> > > > > party-based political system is amenable to manipulation by business
> > > > > intersts, which set the politico-economic agenda of nations. The
> people
> > > > > are also carried away by the way of life being projected by such
> > > > > interests. In their heart they may be in favour of a more placid
> life style.
> > > > > But such preferences are over-shadowed by the prevailing agenda set
> > > > > by business interests.
> > > > >
> > > > > A truer democracy, if it can be established, will counter the
> business
> > > > > interests at a fundamental level. Thus there is a link between global
> > > > > warming, depleting oil resources and the kind of democracy that is
> > > > > prevailing. As I have mentioned before, if a conscience-based
> democracy
> > > > > can be ushered in at the global level, it can counter the process
> of global
> > > > > warming. A strange statement at first sight, but it is true.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > PVR