Re: Re: [WDDM] Repeted answer to Antonio

["Vijayaraghavan Padmanabhan" <vijayaraghavan.p(at)rediffmail.com>]

Dear Antonio and Giorgio,
The exchanges between you have been interesting to read. Basically the present situation of excessive use of world's oil resources and the consequent global warming reaching alarming proportions, can be controlled - provided if we understand what propels such a process.

It is the run away success of business establishments in the present day world aided by a faulty political system that is responsible. The party-based political system is amenable to manipulation by business intersts, which set the politico-economic agenda of nations. The people are also carried away by the way of life being projected by such interests. In their heart they may be in favour of a more placid life style. But such preferences are over-shadowed by the prevailing agenda set by business interests.

A truer democracy, if it can be established, will counter the business interests at a fundamental level. Thus there is a link between global warming, depleting oil resources and the kind of democracy that is prevailing. As I have mentioned before, if a conscience-based democracy can be ushered in at the global level, it can counter the process of global warming. A strange statement at first sight, but it is true.

Regards,

PVR



On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 Giorgio Menon wrote :
>
>>>
>>>G:
>>>Here we go again. You say there's democracy and Democracy. I'm sure there's
>>>dEMOCRACY too and a friend of mine knows someone who claimes he saw
>>>a DeMoCraCy once. Calling different situations with the same name generates
>>>only confusion. On the other hand pretending an existing situation is "better"
>>>that it really is remains a bad sign of schizophrenia IMHO.
>>>Please let's separate dreams from reality. Dreams are a necessary drive for
>>>anyone. But reality has its own necessities.
>>>
>>I do not follow you here.
>>
>>First: because there is difference from the reality outside, and the reality inside
>>our words. Do you know about Alfred Korzybski's renown axiom:
>>"*The map is not the territory*"? As how I understand it, our descriptions of reality are all maps of the reality
>>outside.
>
>
>Reality (facts) has a different "weight" compared to our dreams and thoughts. I agree
>
>>
>>
>>Second, and subsequent: Since all of what we put into words about reality
>>are maps, let's agree that one's map can be better than another's.
>
>
>Yes, words pointing at a map closer to reality are to be preferred. Words pointing at something that has never existed are to be avoided.
>Agreed again
>
>>
>>
>>Third: "Reality", has no necessities. It is the one who maps out the reality,
>>who has necessities, according with one's own ability to draw out and read
>>maps, and the usefulness of the latter in avoiding blind alleys, ruins and like.
>
>A stone has the necessity to fall down, once thrown. Newton did an excellent job describing it. Again i see that reality has necessities we don't necessarily see. Oil is going to end soon, no matter how far we like to put that end. Vulcanos will burst, tornados will strike, earthquakes will shake the earth, the sun will heat the air up, the snow will freeze it. We can try to describe this with poetry or scientific formulae, but reality will care very little about it.
>
>>
>>
>>>History has always shown just one face of democracy, no matter how you
>>>like to write it. It's about 2500 years that the elites are "democratically" ruling
>>>the people.
>>
>>I don't follow you, here. The term for the elites ruling the people is oligarchy,
>>and not "democracy". Period.
>
>Read on Wiki:
>"All the Athenian citizens were eligible to speak and vote in the Assembly, which set the laws of the city-state, but neither political rights, nor citizenship, were granted to women <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women>, slaves <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaves>, or metics <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metics>. Of the 250,000 inhabitants only some 30,000 on average were citizens. Of those 30,000 perhaps 5,000 might regularly attend one or more meetings of the popular Assembly."
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy
>
>Are you trying to convince me that 5,000 citizens out of 250,000 is not an elite? Question mark.
>
>
>>>
>>>Questioning is not always a sign of wisdom. Would you question driving on
>>>the right lane?
>>
>>
>>Of course I do.
>>
>>First, I question myself for whether that is the right lane.
>>
>>If I'm unable to experience it myself, I search for the authority who decided
>>that that is the right lane, and question him-her for which criteria he-she used
>>to decide that that was the right lane.
>>
>>Any question more ? ;-)
>
>
>Yes. Should you find their criteria "irrational" for reasons only you know, would you drive on the left lane then? (English and Australian drivers please forgive me.....).
>
>>
>>>>
>>>>Dear Giorgio,
>>>>
>>>>I cannot control the offer of oil in the markets of London and New York.
>>>>I can only control my demand of oil
>>>
>>>
>>>Do you own a solar powered car maybe? You can't control nearly anything
>>>in the oil process. Surely you need it to move, and you (anyone, actually)
>>>indirectly use a huge amount of it even without moving. I read somewhere
>>>that the few KJoule of a steak are nothing compared to the KJoule needed to
>>>transport, stock, refrigerate and cook it. Can you control this? The system is
>>>too big now to be controlled. And i'm quite sure that even at the top of the
>>>pyramidal societies people don't know much how to handle it. It's enough
>>>for them to keep it running the way they like it.
>>>
>>>
>>>Regards
>>>
>>>Giorgio
>>>
>>>
>>But unfortunately, the oil is no endless energy resource. Perhaps in forty,
>>perhaps in fifty years the oil will end. But it will end: may I suggest you,
>>while wishing you an everlasting life, to be prepared for the oil end by
>>providing yourself with a bicycle? Maybe some training with it could be
>>the case.
>>
>>Ciao,
>>
>>antonio
>
>
>If i correctly uderstand your words you're picturing out a future situation where no oil is available and we all will be forced to use the pushbike. Such future can't disturb me, as i like riding my bike. My question: given that we know that sooner or later the oil will end, why alternative solutions haven't been studied and planned? What power do common people have to decide to switch, for instance, from oil to solar? No power is my answer. They can only hope that oil companies, fearing the end of their lucrative business, try to start a new game. Hydrogen power, for example. Oil multinationals have been responsible for decades of censorship and sabotage against new projects undermining their wealth while promoting oil consumptions. SUVdocet.
>"each gallon of gasoline burned pumps 28 pounds of CO2 into the
>atmosphere, the average car emits about 63 tons of CO2 over its lifetime — and the
>average SUV or pickup emits around 82 tons.
>In comparison:America’s automobiles produce
>more global warming pollution than all the vehicles, power plants, and factories in
>Great Britain combined."
>http://www.sierraclub.org/globalwarming/factsheets/BiggestStep_05.pdf
>
>Regards
>
>Giorgio
>