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01345: Re: [WDDM] Repeted answer to Antonio

From: Georges Metanomski <zgmet(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 01:58:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Repeted answer to Antonio

--- Bruce Eggum <bruceeggum(at)gmail.com> wrote:

==================================================
BE:
The issue is government.
==================================================
G:
Is it? Government is Executive and DD concerns
Legislative. It's true that DD Government should
act by delegation of the DD legislative Forum
and not by representation, but it certainly should
not act by DD procedures in its day to day decisions.
A minister of interior calling a national referendum
to decide what to do with an exploding refinery
does not fall within the province of DD, but of
loony bin.
==================================================
BE:
Georges Shadow Government, a different name but same
process.
=================================================
G:
Same process as what?
=================================================
BE:
Snapshot I&R What is snapshot I&R?
=================================================
G:
Snapshot means in English a photo fixing a single
moment, as opposed to a continuous record over a
period of time. I use it as a metaphor helping to
understand the following quotation and it was so far
always clearly grasped. If you have other
understanding problems I shall gladly help.

Quotation:
***
I&R is by
definition a snapshot and snapshots may easily
be conditioned by media and demagogy. DD starts
with a continuous "3F" Forum having all 3 functions
namely Initiative, Debate and Decision, with
Debate determining current consensus and
Decision occurring when consensus reaches a
value predetermined by Forum's rules
***
=================================================
BE:
Snapshot I&R usually confused with DD would be
in reality the most dangerous dodging maneuver
of Particracy against the true DD.

Bruce shakes his head ???????????????????? huh?
===================================================
G:
The statement, as the whole Shadow Parliament may be
right or wrong and is not an affirmation, but a call
for debate. Yet, it was always clearly understood,
even by our Village Forum consisting of hardly
educated young paesants and fishermen.
The above quotation apparently explains it clearly.
Where is your understanding problem?

The postulate behind the Shadow Parliament is that
with the current flat logic we are incapable to
discuss even slightly complex problems in a rational
structured way. In our Village Forum we used the
RD Logic to run exercise debates on such problems
as Climat warming, Polution, Energy, Windmills,
Industrial animal farming, Globalisation, Iraq,
Middle East. After a couple of exercises debates
became rational, pertinent and consensus oriented.
We could pass to practice and had successes in areas
of windmills, chicken farms and chemical herbicides.

The idea behind the Shadow Parliament is to start
in a similar way by picking up some similar problem
and on its example to learn to rationally discuss,
before moving to the SP itself, much too complex
for the beginning. I would suggest something simple
like windmills to start.

For RD's Logic see:

http://findgeorges.com/ROOT/RELATIVISTIC_DIALECTIC/C_MODELING_AND_LOGIC/CC_PHENOMENALISTIC_LOGIC_OF_RD/cca_cognitive_network.html

Georges
=====================================================



Einstein's assertion:



"A new manner of thinking is essential if humankind
is to survive."



A clear call for Enlightenment understood as
people's

emergence from obscurantism imposed dogmatically by

established governance, media, education and
religions.



But than Georges says:

That's why we endeavor to explicate Relativistic

Dialectic in ontological and epistemological terms

as a modest contribution to the Second Enlightenment

and to its socio-political outcome, the Direct

Democracy.



Bruce states: So, you add all the dogmatic academic
crap and we are back to
zero!



Initiative and BINDING Referendum preceded by
discussion, evaluation, is
certainly not a "snapshot". Certainly many things go
into the choices people
make, much of which is uncontrollable. Media will
always have an impact.
People must trust less and examine closer. Lessons,
some are hard. But
lessons do come. The I&Br Process = Idea,
discussion, initiative presented,
more discussion, perhaps amended, initiative
accepted (or rejected),
presented for referendum (more discussion) Binding
Referendum pass or fail.



I&BR could be the tool for people to install a
government they could
control. Control is where the power is.



A massive infrastructure is needed to administrate
a large country. If
these people running government were given only
administrative power, they
would have to do what the people commanded. Elected
administrators,
recallable at any time.



Shadow government could than be brought in totally.
It would be the process
of the people deciding what commands to give the
administrators.



Now, we have many good software programs which could
help the people in
their deliberations. This of course must be done
totally outside of the
government infrastructure.

This is what WDDM began to do, than was stopped by
to many wanting to do it
their way rather than coming to a WDDM Community
decision. That is why WDDM
has been trying to develop it's own infrastructure,
so it could proceed on
it's goal to provide information on Initiative and
Referendum which the
people could use to take over control of their own
community government.

Until people see they really can have control and
what steps they must take
to gain control, they will do nothing. That is the
clinker, nobody can do it
for the people, the people must do it themselves.
But they must understand
what must be done and have some belief the process
will work. Thus a massive
sales /education process is necessary using video,
recordings, phone
messages, websites, email, all of it. Not telling
anyone what to do, but
that they CAN!

This email list gossiping gets nowhere. Let us take
this to WDDM Forum and
proceed. Just go to WDDM.org and sign in. If you
need help with passwords
the help is there or email Mirek.

Georges you will love it. It is a FORUM!

Regards, Bruce


On 7/19/07, Antonio Rossin <rossin(at)tin.it> wrote:


Giorgio Menon ha scritto:
Antonio Rossin wrote:

Well, I remember very well your insulting
violence
in rejecting any antithesis to your theses as
"prattle,
meaningless asininity, bullshit" and alike
pleasantries.

Antonio,
you are a neurologist and no one better than you
can let me
understand what's happening in Georges' mind. I
repeatedly
read his insults and contempt toward anyone who
disagree
with his ideas. Then i read this:

"1.I don't write TO PEOPLE, but ABOUT their
massages.
I'm probably the only person on this list who
does not write
ad personam. If it happened once or twice, show
me where
and I appologize in advance."


http://groups.google.it/group/epistemology/msg/bce11ad48a47c984?hl=it&;

What do you think?

Regards

Giorgio


Giorgio,

In my humble opinion -- but also in my past
experience
as a psychiatry practitioner -- it is a matter of
one's brain
hemispheres working together to process some
thinking
line. The question is, re to a given
input-idea-argument,
do the two brain hemispheres co-operate together
in
=== message truncated ===
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