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00919: [WDDM] Re: Toward a WDDM Charter

From: Antonio Rossin <rossin(at)tin.it>
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 09:36:16 +0100
Subject: [WDDM] Re: Toward a WDDM Charter

Hi,

from the post quoted below, it emerges that:

1.  the WDDM group of democracy activists has no charter
still, such as what Bruce advocates so insistently;

2.  Nevertheless, the group membership has grown up in time.
Those who entered the WDDM membership did not need of
any Charter to do it, but the original FDs that expose WDDM's
aims have been enough;

3.  WDDM is doing a great deal of work, mostly thanks to
Mirek, by storing lots and lots of democracy documents and
showing them to everybody who wants to apply democracy.
By doing so, all the WDDM's work is done;

4.  No one bans Bruce from designing a Democracy charter,
which will be obviously stored by Mirek together with all other
relevant documents. It will be Bruce's suggestion for any one
who needs of a draft for organizing one's country politically;

5.  According with 4., a clear distinction should be made
between a World Wide Democracy, and our little group of
Democracy activists having been registered as such at Athens
Delphi a six years over ago as a Movement for a World Wide
Democracy.  What must be quite clear to all, it is that the
Charter which Bruce is minding of (please Bruce correct me
if I were wrong) it is a charter to organize Democracy World
Wide, that is "democracy"  all over the the world and not a
charter to help our little movement of democracy activists --
who are all doing their best as democracy volunteers.
At the very least, I no not feel in need of any such Bruce's
mastery guideline to do what I'm doing currently, nor I can
imagine Mirek or Bernard being in need of it to do in any
better way what they're already doing currently (please
Mirek and Bernard correct me if I were wrong);

6.  Finally, currently there is plenty of Democracy movements
who want to state out a Democracy Charter -- see for instance
"The Community of World Citizens" which  movement most of
us are members of  too, at <worldcit(at)googlegroups.com>

That is, an official World Wide Democracy Charter, more than
democratically unfair if presented as a Constitutional Charter --
and not as the internal bureaucratic guideline of a small group
of democracy activists -- would look like a competitive challenge
to the others.  I mean, Bruce's wanted charter would become a
competitive tool for disuniting Democracy, rather than to unite
it world wide.


any comments?

antonio
PS.
I add worldcit(at)googlegroups.com (the Community of World
Citizens) mailing list to Bruce's addresses as he seems to
have missed it.

.





At 18:36 -0600 13-01-2007, Bruce Eggum wrote:
Bruce responds to Bernards post within the post.



 Bernard comments:

I have read this numerous times, and whilst I can answer each question, doing so implies one has agreed that it is the right way forward, I do not for several reasons.

You were given a remit, you have done it well, but I also have to agree with Ted's comment - 'Glutton for punishment'<grin>

I recognise the symptoms of taking a challenge, I have the same problem ditto with the glutton (see email to Antonio).

1) If one looks at the responses so far, one can get the picture of what will happen if there is agreement for an organisation - it will be left to the executive.

[BE] That is why a WDDM Charter is needed. It would take away and limit power to individuals, by placing powers on the members. A Board could do the administrative duties assigned it, develop policy etc. which would than be approved by referendum. As it is, members have no control what so ever. Even the election system of  the original WDDM has been lost.


Anyone know how political parties start? (don't answer that).

[BE] Yes I will. They are factions of people that join together their way. Again, this type behavior can be eliminated with a Charter, (banishing all political involvement)

That prompts another thought - how many members are there?

Forty seven (47) http://www.world-wide-democracy.net/Wiki/MemberPages

It's only a little thing, but indicative - I read in one posting that Bruce was a co-moderator, did I miss the posting that asked the group approval?

[BE] Yes you did miss the posting(s) Bernard. A call went out to all WDDM members for volunteers to moderate the WDDM emails. A moderator is neccessary to eliminate spam etc. All email must be read, approved, and re-emailed to the WDDM email system. Mirek who is very busy any way, was moving, setting up a new home etc. Nobody else volunteered.  If I had not volunteered, there would have been approximately two months with none or sporadic WDDM email. Mirek is doing much more than he originally intended. This is because there are so few "active" members willing to share the work. This is another reason for a Charter. Responsibilities could be developed (secretary, treasurer etc.) than people could volunteer and be accepted by referendum. Than reports could be made and we could be aware of costs, revenue needed, future needs, participate in what is on the site, develop methods to promote direct democracy etc.

2) If it is decided to have an organization, the power will be in the executive, it is inevitable, it is the reason why executive's exist.

[BE] No, there are presidents, or chairpersons, or spokespersons of card clubs and all sorts of "groups" which are organized with the members in mind. [these are referred to as organization's]

(Bernard)3) It will need money, which then shows the failure to recognise where the real power is in the world, politicians ego's cover up who pulls their strings, and this organisation wants to join them !!!!

[BE] Certainly money is needed. Do you think the webspace, server(s), computer(s) necessary software, technical assistance, telephone, web-access, and other costs in running the present WDDM are all free-bees? A few thousand at least is needed just for WDDM to exist as it is.

(Bernard continues) The research I have been doing indicates we are entering a phase that will see the worlds finances crashing, most likely this spring, WDDM.org would be dead before it started.

Does anyone understand Risk Management?

[BE] I certainly am not an expert, but the first item in risk management is to know your assets and liabilities, than be responsible for them. Out of necessity we do this in our own lives, in our family's and business's or suffer the [natural] consequences. This is also necessary in any group of people. Thus to begin we need a Charter so we can administrate WDDM. Than an inventory of assets and liabilities as well as projected costs can be completed and we can begin to take responsibility for our WDDM, be it a movement, club, group, or even an organization. Unless WDDM gets organized it is dead.

4) The strength of an association would be in the members, and if the members do not have the guts to fight for democracy, what are we doing this for anyway?

5) When did the members vote for an organisation?

Regards

Bernard



[BE] WDDM has always been an organization, so you joined an organization Bernard.

Although there has always been a play on words, calling this Worldwide Direct Democracy Movement, instead of organization, which it is by defined structure and calling the President a "Spokesperson" instead of "President". Using synonyms does not change the meaning.

Please note the founding documents. There is a Coordinating Committee, Voting etc, This original draft document was to be updated and defined, which we have been attempting to do for years. The original coordinating committee made this the first order of business.



WDDM Founding Docs:

http://tinyurl.com/y8c3j9



note top Bernard. You noted my misspelling (which I am a bit careless about.) so I underlined the words which do not fit my USA dictionary. We do have different spellings in different country's for sure. I believe we can make it out though and that is the important thing.





On 1/13/07,Bernard Clayson wrote:
Mark and all,

I have read this numerous times, and whilst I can answer each question, doing so implies one has agreed that it is the right way forward, I do not for several reasons.
You were given a remit, you have done it well, but I also have to agree with Ted's comment - 'Glutton for punishment'<grin>
I recognise the symptoms of taking a challenge, I have the same problem ditto with the glutton (see email to Antonio).
1) If one looks at the responses so far, one can get the picture of what will happen if there is agreement for an organisation - it will be left to the executive.
Anyone know how political parties start? (don't answer that).
That prompts another thought - how many members are there?
It's only a little thing, but indicative - I read in one posting that Bruce was a co-moderator, did I miss the posting that asked the group approval?
2) If it is decided to have an organisation, the power will be in the executive, it is inevitable, it is the reason why executive's exist.
3) It will need money, which then shows the failure to recognise where the real power is in the world, politicians ego's cover up who pulls their strings, and this organisation wants to join them !!!!
The research I have been doing indicates we are entering a phase that will see the worlds finances crashing, most likely this spring, WDDM.org would be dead before it started.
Does anyone understand Risk Management?
4) The strength of an association would be in the members, and if the members do not have the guts to fight for democracy, what are we doing this for anyway?
5) When did the members vote for an organisation?

Regards
Bernard

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Antell, editor CitizenPowerMagazine.net
To: wddm@world-wide-democracy.net
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:56 AM
Subject: [WDDM] Toward a WDDM Charter


Toward a WDDM Charter

To:         WDDM Membership
From:     Mark Antell, editor CitizenPowerMagazine.net

May I request that reviewers read this note completely before responding?  Thank you.


--
Bruce Eggum
Gresham Wisconsin, USA
http://www.doinggovernment.com/
Check out my Blog too
http://bruceeggum.blogster.com/


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