[Prev] [Next]   [Index]   [Thread Index]

00697: Re: [WDDM] Re: [d-europe] Re: [WDDM] Parties and Politics

From: Antonio Rossin <rossin(at)tin.it>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 07:28:57 +0100
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Re: [d-europe] Re: [WDDM] Parties and Politics

Dear S'ace,
it seems to me, You are pointing out to some of people's problems...
which I would categorize as follows:

            " PEOPLE ARE NOT THE PROBLEMS, THEY ARE THE SOLUTIONS
                IF THE PEOPLE LEAD, THE LEADERS WILL FOLLOW."
Accordingly, whichever the addressed political problem may even
be, those of us who feel the political mission to make a political
change should open a room for the people's (direct) leadership.

How to do it?  A political party is Representative politicians'-
or bureaucrats'- leadership:  not people's, as far as I can see.

Ciao,

antonio
PS. (to Bernie)
I would call "horizontal thinking" your "thinking both medalsides
simultaneously
", there were the people (as far as I can see) far
prefer to look at one medalside -- or medal party -- only, in what
I call "vertical thinking".


At 10:46 +0100 29-10-2006, S'ace orange wrote:
dear antonio, franz, annette, bruce, miroslav, pras ... and
all/other related femmow human in one mission ...

what do we do first have a position and then have a stand ...
or have a stand and then win a position ...
or create a thing as a party?
what is a party?

i wondered this question deeply ...
and share with you the idea that a party never could be a
thing as an organism, an institute, a political entity ...
blunt ...
blunt told?
well, do you perhaps allow me to whisper some arguments?

on the collective perception and on the individual perception
starting from our seperated positions the arguments are
described here. here i admit the both perceptional views may
be useful when united people stage is reclaimed, ... at last,
as an exercise of thinking both medalsides simultaneously.

arguments from the collective perception:
* a party is a process happening, as a birthdayparty, a
rememberance, and still even a carnavalesk election campaign
"taking oneself at the nose in a carnavalesk party"
* the word "party" which until now (proposed) co-laborated
people can be whiped out from the planet, from peoples
vocabulaire (in stead: think and decide on other single
meaning comprehensions)
* (more things can be said, when we can get free of the emotions
that every now and then may come up te resolve)


arguments to the individual perception:
* "one man one vote" was a motto mystifying individuals in
the act of voting: deciding to select one other person out of a
list to do the job for "you" for a considerable number of days
(say about 1400)
* exercising decision making is for each individual a
"partytime" in maintaining ones collaborative radar free
of emotional memories related to poor, not so smart from
the humanitary viewpoint token, historic times
* (also here more things can be said)

on the DD side ...
i am convinced that a DD practise as collaborative fellow
citizen job adds to the mutual understanding of what may
be the right decisions to take ... at the same time i think
we have to have a discourse where people have a stage to
vote for there representatives. if such a discours is still
needed apart from the solution in legalizing DD strategies
to the governance decorum (also still needed, aint it??? ...
eg. filling our media, creative frictions etc.) then it comes
in the dialogue arena to discuss which alternative forms
of mass-decision making can lead our mutual & serious
exercises to the unified systemical paradigm (s word?).


may the well be and be with Y our S,
s'ace

have your stand ... moving ( "neureebah" )


----- Original Message -----
From: Antonio Rossin
To: <democracy-europe(at)yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <democracy-europe(at)yahoogroups.com>; <wddm@world-wide-democracy.net>; Academy of Direct Democracy; <cicdd(at)yahoogroups.com>; Franz Isemann, MD
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 10:40 PM
Subject: [WDDM] Re: [d-europe] Re: [WDDM] Parties and Politics


> Dear Franz,
>
> glad with reading of you.
>
> I agree with you, but "a party for DD" is no "DD political party".
> Let's suppose, any political party can be "for", i.e. in favour of, DD:
> provided only it supports "Initiative & Referendum" directly from
> the people bottom-up.
>
> ciao,
>
> antonio
>
>
>
>
> At 17:49 +0200 26-10-2006, Franz Isemann, MD wrote:
>>Dear friends,
>>A party for DD is different from any other party, as long DD is really
>>practice within that party. Einsteins message cannot apply in this
>>context.
>>But a party for DD is a difficult task and needs permanent selfrenewal.
>>In other words it needs a strong nucleus of very competent and devoted
>>DD-freaks and also a very good internal constitution.
>>Franz Isemann
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Antonio Rossin
>>Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 7:23 AM
>>
>>At 0:51 +0300 26-10-2006, [Maria Ivanova] wrote:
>>>
>>>  Yes, I guess this is a good idea to create a DD political party.
>>>  As for us (Academy of Direct Democracy, Ukraine) we see no way to
>>>  create it for now but as the idea it sound good for us.
>>>  My best regards, Maria Ivanova
>>
>>Hi Maria Ivanova,
>>Albert Einstein is said he stated :
>>"We cannot solve the problems of a system by using the tools of the
>>same system that originated them".
>>I guess, all the ideas sound good for critical discussion -- yet I
>>wholeheartedly appreciate the clear fact that your Academy sees no
>>way to create a DD political party.
>>Cheers,
>>antonio
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     Democracy Europe - D-Europe - supports all efforts to promote
>>     democracy and to build up a more democratic Europe.
>>     In all countries within, not yet in, or outside the EU.
>>         -   http://yahoogroups.com/group/democracy-europe
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     New Convention on the future of Europe:
>>         -   http://democracy-international.org/new-convention.html
>>     European Citizens' Initiative:
>>         -   http://democracy-international.org/eci.html
>>     European Referendum / European Referendum Campaign:
>>         -   http://european-referendum.org/erc.html
>>     Network for Direct Democracy in Europe: http://nddie.org
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     How to build up a succesful organisation - experience of Mehr
>>     Demokratie, also contacts to get assistance:
>>         -   http://democracy-international.org/howto.html
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     Political rights in the Swiss Confederation (on the federal level,
>>     in addition to those in all the cantones and communes):
>>             -   http://www.admin.ch/ch/e/pore
>>     de:     -   http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/pore
>>     fr:     -   http://www.admin.ch/ch/f/pore
>>     it:     -   http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>        Paradise is exactly like where you are
>>            right now, only much, much, better.    --Laurie Anderson
>>
>>        Never doubt that a small group of engaged people can change
>>            the world - indeed it is the only way
>>                  the world has ever changed.        --Margaret Mead
>

[Prev] [Next]   [Index]   [Thread Index]