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00694: Re: [WDDM] Re: [d-europe] Re: [WDDM] Parties and Politics

From: "S'ace orange" <cjdegroot(at)orange.nl>
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 10:46:05 +0100
Subject: Re: [WDDM] Re: [d-europe] Re: [WDDM] Parties and Politics

dear antonio, franz, annette, bruce, miroslav, pras ... and all/other related femmow human in one mission ...

what do we do first have a position and then have a stand ...
or have a stand and then win a position ...
or create a thing as a party?
what is a party?

i wondered this question deeply ...
and share with you the idea that a party never could be a thing as an organism, an institute, a political entity ...
blunt ...
blunt told?
well, do you perhaps allow me to whisper some arguments?

on the collective perception and on the individual perception starting from our seperated positions the arguments are described here. here i admit the both perceptional views may be useful when united people stage is reclaimed, ... at last, as an exercise of thinking both medalsides simultaneously.

arguments from the collective perception:
* a party is a process happening, as a birthdayparty, a rememberance, and still even a carnavalesk election campaign "taking oneself at the nose in a carnavalesk party"
* the word "party" which until now (proposed) co-laborated people can be whiped out from the planet, from peoples vocabulaire (in stead: think and decide on other single meaning comprehensions)
* (more things can be said, when we can get free of the emotions that every now and then may come up te resolve)

arguments to the individual perception:
* "one man one vote" was a motto mystifying individuals in the act of voting: deciding to select one other person out of a list to do the job for "you" for a considerable number of days (say about 1400)
* exercising decision making is for each individual a "partytime" in maintaining ones collaborative radar free of emotional memories related to poor, not so smart from the humanitary viewpoint token, historic times
* (also here more things can be said)

on the DD side ...
i am convinced that a DD practise as collaborative fellow citizen job adds to the mutual understanding of what may be the right decisions to take ... at the same time i think we have to have a discourse where people have a stage to vote for there representatives. if such a discours is still needed apart from the solution in legalizing DD strategies to the governance decorum (also still needed, aint it??? ... eg. filling our media, creative frictions etc.) then it comes in the dialogue arena to discuss which alternative forms of mass-decision making can lead our mutual & serious exercises to the unified systemical paradigm (s word?).


may the well be and be with Y our S,
s'ace

have your stand ... moving ( "neureebah" )


----- Original Message -----
From: Antonio Rossin
To: <democracy-europe(at)yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <democracy-europe(at)yahoogroups.com>; <wddm@world-wide-democracy.net>; Academy of Direct Democracy; <cicdd(at)yahoogroups.com>; Franz Isemann, MD
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 10:40 PM
Subject: [WDDM] Re: [d-europe] Re: [WDDM] Parties and Politics

> Dear Franz,
>
> glad with reading of you.
>
> I agree with you, but "a party for DD" is no "DD political party".
> Let's suppose, any political party can be "for", i.e. in favour of, DD:
> provided only it supports "Initiative & Referendum" directly from
> the people bottom-up.
>
> ciao,
>
> antonio
>
>
>
>
> At 17:49 +0200 26-10-2006, Franz Isemann, MD wrote:
>>Dear friends,
>>A party for DD is different from any other party, as long DD is really
>>practice within that party. Einsteins message cannot apply in this
>>context.
>>But a party for DD is a difficult task and needs permanent selfrenewal.
>>In other words it needs a strong nucleus of very competent and devoted
>>DD-freaks and also a very good internal constitution.
>>Franz Isemann
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Antonio Rossin
>>Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 7:23 AM
>>
>>At 0:51 +0300 26-10-2006, [Maria Ivanova] wrote:
>>>
>>>  Yes, I guess this is a good idea to create a DD political party.
>>>  As for us (Academy of Direct Democracy, Ukraine) we see no way to
>>>  create it for now but as the idea it sound good for us.
>>>  My best regards, Maria Ivanova
>>
>>Hi Maria Ivanova,
>>Albert Einstein is said he stated :
>>"We cannot solve the problems of a system by using the tools of the
>>same system that originated them".
>>I guess, all the ideas sound good for critical discussion -- yet I
>>wholeheartedly appreciate the clear fact that your Academy sees no
>>way to create a DD political party.
>>Cheers,
>>antonio
>>
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