Mirek wrote -
Just a few questions/comments from your "part-time" webmaster:
1. Do you want me to delete completely some of the "masturbation prattles"
pages from the Wiki? Which ones?
(BC) I do not have the time to wander around the web/wiki, so the question
is academic to me, apart from the fact that most of the emails would be
enough to frighten interested people away from democracy.
-----------
2. There may actually be more recent activity than it is currently visible
on
"Recent" and "Comments" pages. Because "blog" and "forum" are add-ons to the
Wiki, the new submissions to them do not appear on the "Recent" page (top
Wiki
menu). I'll try to correct this.
(BC) Ditto
-----------
3. What Bruce is doing (local referenda) is very valuable. But can a single
person organize something like that in a community with one million
inhabitants? That would be impossible with putting at first some DD
structure
in place, and securing the means (financing) for a referendum in a
million-people city.
(BC) Not sure what Bruce is doing, was it in an email or on the web?
However, why would a single person try to organise a referendum in a city of
a million people.
If a city has that many people it must be split up in to districts with a
council, representatives on the council would have an allocated area, we
call them wards.
Trying to run the marathon before you know how to walk is asking for
failure.
You can tell there are no farmers or builders on this list, a farmer would
know you have to sow the seed before harvesting the crop, a builder would
never put the roof on before laying the foundations.
-----------
Therefore other activities (such as Georges' simulations in smaller
groups)
are also important to prepare for the acceptance of DD.
In this context, I would return to my earlier post about WDDM mission. It
was probably not well understood. I was not doubting that our goal
(principle
mission) is the promotion and achievement of DD. I was suggesting to try to
come up with what we, in this for now small group, can do to achieve this
goal.
Could we think about it some more? What can we concentrate on?
(BC) You can play with theory for the next 1000 years, get out there and do
it.
-----------
One obvious thing is to use WDDM as a place to report on our local
practical
efforts, as Bruce suggest.
(BC) Is this a name trasplant?
-----------
I was thinking that WDDM could (also) become a laboratory or model for
DD.
Has anybody actually already succeeded in creating a truly "horizontal"
group/organization without leading elites, in which everybody would have an
equal voice/opportunity? (It seems to me that WDDM members are somewhat
lost, expecting some sort of leadership, in spite of their professed stands
against
the top-down approach. Could we truly self-organize instead?)
That is why I think we need to develop some procedural structure,
procedures
how to collectively process proposals and come to conclusions without having
a
dominating person or committee. I don't think this is "masturbation". If we
succeeded, it might be quite valuable contribution on the way to DD.
(BC) Read the cicdd list messages, or any other democracy list,
ever-decreasing circles come to mind.
If the advocates do not have the guts to get out and learn reality,
ever-decreasing circles will reign supreme.
----------
A related question: Is there any place in DD for leaders? Or better: What
is
the role of leaders/facilitators in DD? Some people are more initiative than
others. They instigate change. Do we need some formal checks to prevent them
to
also usurp most of the decision making?
(BC) Leader, or supplying a service, which is how I see my role in the local
referenda, how others view it another question.
I do not set the question/s, the people who ask me to do it perform that
function, even then the question is presented to others to get their opinion
before the signature sheets are circulated to assess support.
My neck is on the block for running the referendum, but that is why I
require the signature sheets i.e. if it has significant support it provides
a cast iron defence.
I took a calculated risk when I started i.e. if we are really boxed in by
laws etc no one in their right mind would take me to court and prove to
everyone else that we are locked in a cage.
My neck was on the block at our last parish council meeting, I was asked if
i would do another referendum after the council had made a decision.
I said yes, I would if people came to me with problem, and the required
support.
They did not know how to handle that, it then led to legalities etc.
I invited them to take me to the UK Standards Board if they had a problem
with my conduct.
They did not know how to handle that either.
Anyway, progress, the chairman has come back to me about a meeting with
local residents to discuss the future planning of the village, a point that
I have been refused numerous times.
I think they have got the message at last, if they don't participate, I will
go around them.
So why are the rest of you hiding under the table?
------------
More: how to accommodate people (e.g. like me), who do not have time to
devote all their time to public matters? That would be a vast majority of
all
the people in any future DD. People will always have to take care of their
lives, feed their families, etc. It would be necessary to find ways how not
to
overload people with unessential information, and still provide everybody
with
all the objective information needed to participate in making informed
decision.
Etc. ...
(BC) Start growing the crop, at the bottom.
You need to 'harvest' people, and you will not do that by trying to compete
with the 'ones at the top', you will be perceived as 'one of them'.
I could have tried for MP, but I did not know the first thing about giving
the people the opportunity to make decisions.
I would have had access to funds, but money does not buy the information
that I needed, and the years on internet democracy groups have not taught
anything either, because no one has done it.
So I had to jump in the deep end to find out for myself.
I have just counted the wddm emails that I received so far, 290 ...... that
tell me nothing, unless doing nothing is constructive.