Re: various (lozenge etc.)

[Giorgio Menon <menon(at)pd.infn.it>]

Dear Jiri,
i was not doubting about your (or any other's) good intentions. Sorry if
that was not clear enough. I'm not a passive on-looker either. My point
was just another. There's a difference between knowing that something
must be changed, accepting the necessary changes and  activating the
process of change. Maybe many of us know that something must be changed.
But how many dare to face this process? In other words if the political
elites have destroyed the life of millions but those victims are not
ready for the change yet, there's not much that we can do unless we
decide we are the  authority (god-given or else) who can promote such
change. In this case we are dictators, not very different from those
who, in the name of the good for the many , have destroyed some millions
of lives. In the only case that the vaste majority, or even a strict
majority, likes to be the subject of a social change then there will be
a revolution, a real change. I'm thinking about Ghandi and his peaceful
fights against the British empire. Those were succesfull because the
people were ready. Other, more rooted issues like the castes, brought no
result and he was deeply worried about it.  He got killed because of
this, eventually.
Therefore my 2c suggestion is always be prepared (and always spread new
seeds) because the people can suddenly need a change. In that case we
can offer clear directions that will be accepted because they are
needed. In any other case we'll simply find thick walls to cross.
Something that also Ghandi has shown to be dangerous.

Best regards

Giorgio

PS I suspect that hartred dims one's abilities to react. I prefer to be
a SOB rather than resentful: i've found out that it offers many more
chances.

Jiri Polak wrote:

> Dear Giorgio,
> your scepticism can only be answered by future development. You seem
> to believe that society should be left as it is without anybody trying
> to change it. I will explain my motives: I am driven by hatred towards
> all those political elites who have destroyed my life and the lives of
> millions of others. I am not going to be a passive on-looker which you
> seem to prefer. I am sure honest people can establish better systems
> than those we have now.
> Sincerely,                  Jiri Polak
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Giorgio Menon" <menon(at)pd.infn.it>
> To: <wddm@world-wide-democracy.net>
> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 2:00 PM
> Subject: Re: various (lozenge etc.)
>
>
> > Jiri Polak wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > > I agree with Mirek. In the future, fully developed democratic
> > > systems, there will not be any need to have leaders (but there will
> > > always be necessary to have some structures ensuring the running og
> > > the system). We are not there yet.
> >
> >
> > Ancient Greeks called it Ou-Topos (Non-Place). It's commonly known as
> > Utopia now.
> >
> >
> > > At this stage, when we are barely beginning to discuss truly
> > > democratic systems and attempt, by trial and error, to put in place
> > > some rudimentary mechanisms, leaders ARE needed! Current DD leaders
> > > do not get payed, they do what they do because of deep conviction
> > > and concern about the future of mankind.
> >
> >
> > A simple question: does mankind need their concerns? Does manking
> > need other Savyors who, in their  name, rescue them from a life of
> > misery? Or isn't more commonly practiced the role of  he-who-needs-to
> > show-how-miserable-mankind-is?  A miserable mankind will never show
> > adequate responsability, rather a great need for authorities. Here
> > the circle closes.
> > Nothing personal, of course. I appreciate all the time and energies
> > these individuals spend in order to improve our lives. I'm only
> > asking if our lives need it.
> > Am i exaggerating maybe? I remember that an exaggerated love begets
> > hartred......
> >
> > > Therefore, there is no corruption and no reason to distrust this
> > > type of leadership. We should be grateful to all those who assume a
> > > (temporary) role as leaders in certain areas.
> > > Sincerely,                       Jiri Polak
> >
> >
> > Absolutely. But Masters of all kinds and all ages MUST be abandoned
> > to be able to achieve personal independance (freedom?), thus a "fully
> > developed democratic systems", whatever this means.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Giorgio