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00136: Re: Conclusions, communities and constitutions

From: Filia den Hollander <fkdh(at)xs4all.nl>
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:30:06 +0200
Subject: Re: Conclusions, communities and constitutions

I agree with Bruce. At best we can be a community. Write our own constitution etc. (which I think is a good idea). Towards the "outside" world the best we can do is to give information, and formulate proposals. Maybe they can spark action - either by one of us or by some other local person or group.

As related to our own WDDM community, it bothers me that a new member has been accepted simply on a vote system, not on a debate system. I didn't propose over nothing that people who know the applicant, should come forward first. I've learned that this is called "push-button" democracy (like some American States have), not debate, digest, crystallize, consensus democracy. I've also learned that push-button democracies leave room for decisions simply made on emotion of the moment, not on rationality and argument. For example to have the death penalty introduced. We need to be very, very careful with this and to carefully debate what is going on here and if we want to continue like this. If we don't, then we're not even close to being a genuine (direct) democracy community and it would be reason for me to leave.

Kind regards,
Filia den Hollander


PS Not at all as important as the above, but in this context I wish to also add that it was inappropriate of one member to already welcome the applicant (with cc to the applicant) before any decision was made, and because he was/is not the moderator.





op 20-04-2005 09:32 schreef Bruce Eggum op bruce.eggum(at)gmail.com:

> I am concerned that what WDDM intends to do, and what Georges intends
> to do are vastly different. First we need to clearly decide what WDDM
> intends to do. If WDDM  is going to educate and inform the people of
> the benefits of dd and I&R&R than much of the information for that is
> established. The goal could even be to establish I&R&R DD centers in
> various nations, states, communities based on what we know of the
> proper procedures necessary to implement DD I&R&R. But, WDDM does not
> make policy, law for any nation country. WDDM is simply an information
> tool.
>
> To "need" a program such as Georges is suggesting is overkill. I
> believe some people will be served by Georges program, perhaps in
> communities and States. However I and perhaps many others do not
> choose to use a severely intellectual program to make decisions for
> me. Geroges already concedes that people with less education do better
> with his program. Perhaps by "educating" those people, he actually
> handicaps their decision making skills.
>
> For the decisions we need to make in the running of the WDDM
> organization, basic tools are quite suitable. We need to agree on an
> election policy procedure, to determine consensus. We need basic rules
> of discussion, following ethical guidelines., we need to enforce these
> guidelines with moderator(s).
>
> WDDM is only deciding simple things for WDDM. When it comes to any
> kind of Constitution, Political decision, these decisions are only
> made by the Nations, States, Communities themselves. WDDM can suggest
> DD  I&R&R methods, but it is entirely the people who will implement
> these items.
>
> I suggest we continue as we are, it will take a bit for all to get
> used to the tools available. Wiki is a great tool, it is not THE tool.
> There is also room for the bulletin board, which is another tool.
> Regards, Bruce
>
>
> On 4/19/05, M. Kolar <wddm(at)mkolar.org> wrote:
>> Georges,
>> your conclusions are premature:
>>   1. I think any file repository on the Internet (e.g., in Yahoo groups,
>> various fora) does not resolve relative links.
>>   2. In the second half of my previous message, I have actually provided you
>> exactly the solution you requried. Just click on this link
>> http://www.world-wide-democracy.net/uploads/GeMetanoski/test_a.html
>> and you see that your relative links work there. I even suggested that you
>> can
>> build in this way a whole mini web-site just using the FileUpload menu on
>> your
>> Wiki page (using as a means to upload files, not to browse them). It's
>> written
>> up here: http://www.world-wide-democracy.net/Wiki/FileUploadHelp
>>
>>
>>> Here is a concrete proposal: no matter how busy I may be I
>>> am ready to coach you in ES and to program or to help you
>>> program an ES on some physical or virtual server.
>>         I am busy too. Do you have a short sample of such a code, a very
>> simple
>> example so I could get a better idea what you are talking about?
>>
>> Anyway, for the purposes of WDDM right now we do not need anything
>> complicated.
>> I think we need first to decide on soma common projects, and only then to
>> look
>> for more technical means.
>>
>> Mirek
>>
>

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