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00122: Conclusions (Mirek)

From: Georges Metanomski <zgmet(at)wanadoo.fr>
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 18:44:01 +0200
Subject: Conclusions (Mirek)

===================================
Mirek:
files stored in this way are not view on the server, but
downloaded to a temporary directory of each visitor's
computer.
===================================
I suspected something like that, but could not believe
it and hoped that I do something wrong.
But now you said it and I am to understand that you
seriously think about implementing a Forum in such a context.
I can hardly believe my eyes, but there it is.
Believe me, I respect you and think that we could do
good job together, but for the moment we are on different
planets. I'll try to explain below pointing to possible
common actions. I'll gladly invest my time in them, if you
want, but I stop losing time in the not only useless, but
noxious Wiki context. I am responsible for workshop list
and for our village Forum where we started a workshop on
Democracy. All I can do is to put in my Wiki home file
pointers to that and other DD workshops we are running
so that people eventually (but unlikely) interested may
look at our work or join it.
===================================
Our experience shows that a DD Forum must be supported by
an adequate Expert System kernel and needs two assisting
levels for commodity: Brainstorming and Archive.
Short comments on these three contexts follow.
===================================
Expert System (ES).
-------------------
ES is a network with Statements (messages) in nodes.
It is entirely contained in a Data Base Entity/Relation
structure without any files.
A node may point downwards to Reactions of which it is
Antecedent and upwards to Antecedents of which it is Reaction.
Collecting Reactions/Antecedents of a node is called
Explosion/Implosion which may be one level (flat) or
recursive (deep),
E/I allows to show at a glance Reactions/Antecedents of a node
and to navigate through the whole network.
Nodes contain fuzzy logical variable "certainty" which is a
measure of consensus degree.
Relations between nodes contain fuzzy logic operators.
Bottom nodes accept votes.
Fuzzy Inferencing encompasses two functions: top-down
"forward chaining" followed by bottom-up "backward chaining"
which evaluate certainty (consensus degree) for all nodes.

This superficial description is of course far from sufficient
for efficient using, let alone for programming an ES.

More, but not enough to program in "Crisis of Logic" of
http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/metanomskiindex.htm

I sincerely believe, Mirek, that if you don't get real competence
in ES, you will never achieve anything in platforms supporting
structured Debate.

Here is a concrete proposal: no matter how busy I may be I
am ready to coach you in ES and to program or to help you
program an ES on some physical or virtual server.
===================================
Brainstorming.
--------------
It is a simpler preparatory phase prior to using the ES.
It has all navigation functions of ES and supports voting
but has no inferencing.
It's a Data Base, not a file system.
===================================
Archive.
--------
Unlike above Data Base systems, Archive is a file system
allowing to have a quick look at Forum's achievements.
As example I have stored my unfortunate Wiki test files
with some additional links in
http://members.fortunecity.com/georges/workshops/test/index.html

Now, that's how Wiki should look and function to be worth
anything. Even then it would not support any structured
Debate, but at least would allow to store its results in
adequate form for people too busy or too lazy to participate.

Please note:
-Structure of Antecedents/Reactions visible at a glance.
-Any file with its Antecedents/Reactions available on a click.
-Deep directory/file structure.
-Graphics.
-Maximum simplicity. Just <html>, <pre> and links, against
hundreds of lines of Wiki overhead useless for us.
For your convienience I show in Appendix a few file views
and sources.
===================================
20 people are waiting for me, so I go back to the workshop.
I shall put in my Wiki home page pointer to it for WDDM
members who may be (unlikely) interested.
Georges.
===================================
APPENDIX
--------
*********************************************************
.../test/index.html View
------------------------
CHILDREN:
test_aa
test_a
PARENTS:
WORKSHOPS
SUNDRY
FILES WITH GRAPHICS

Source:
-------
<html>
<font size="4">
<pre>
CHILDREN:
<a href=test_aa.html> test_aa </a>
<a href=test_a.html> test_a </a>
PARENTS:
<a href=../index.html> WORKSHOPS </a>
SUNDRY
<a href=../../workace/index.html> FILES WITH GRAPHICS </a>
</pre>
</font>
</html>
*********************************************************
.../test/test_a.html View
-------------------------
=====================================
This is just a test file "test_a"
=====================================
CHILDREN:
test_aa
PARENTS:
TEST
WORKSHOPS
ARCHIVE


Source:
-------
<html>
<pre>
=====================================
This is just a test file "test_a"
=====================================
CHILDREN:
<a href=test_aa.html> test_aa </a>
PARENTS:
<a href=./index.html> TEST </a>
<a href=../index.html> WORKSHOPS </a>
<a href=../../index.html> ARCHIVE </a>
</pre>
</html>
*********************************************************
.../test/test_aa.html View
--------------------------
=====================================
This is just a test file "test_aa"
=====================================
PARENTS:
test_a
TEST
WORKSHOPS
ARCHIVE

Source:
-------
<html>
<pre>
=====================================
This is just a test file "test_aa"
=====================================
PARENTS:
<a href=test_a.html> test_a </a>
<a href=./index.html> TEST </a>
<a href=../index.html> WORKSHOPS </a>
<a href=../../index.html> ARCHIVE </a>
</pre>
</html>
*********************************************************



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